1 Am I the only one who finds hot, young, conservative women waxing eloquently about German handguns arousing?

2 Well I'm glad you at least gave the Glock a try. Now you know why people either love them or hate them. In the Auto Dept. as far as I'm concerned you aren't going to find a better gun than an H&K. I have shot thousands of rounds through them and I love them. They might be ugly but they are the best thing going in the semi-auto. Plus they also make my favorite CQB weapon which is the MP-5. If you ever get a chance to play with an MP-5 just for fun don't pass it up as they are a blast to shoot. So will you be trying any revolvers or is your heart set on an auto?

3 I have shot all three guns and swear by the Glock. The biggest reason is its simplicity. If you draw a gun from a holster and need to shoot someone you don't want to mess with an external safety. The fine motor movements needed to disengage it will be exceedingly difficult under stress. I also like the fact that I've shot over 5,000 rounds through it with only one or two malfunctions. I used to own a ParaOrdnance 1911 that probably had 1 every 200 rounds. I don't like the HK which is otherwise a fine gun, because if you've shot 1911s you are trained to ride the safety. Meaning, you draw from the holster with thumb on safety. You push down on safety when your eyes are on the sight and the barrel is pointed downrange. If you keep your thumb on safety--which is simplest and the typical 1911 style of shooting--then as you shoot if you push down on HK USP safety you'll tend to engage decock. If you pull trigger when decock is engaged, the gun won't shoot. You'll think you had a failure to fire so you'll "tap rack bang;" at that point, you'll be losing confidence in gun, especially if it happens again. Great shooting Annika. The key for someone with basic safety and marksmanship down is transitioning from the "square range" mentality to combat shooting. In other words, investing in software (your skills) and not just hardware. I strongly recommend Scotty Reitz in the LA area for his pistol course. He's LAPD SWAT and has a great course; I took his precision rifle course a few years ago and loved it.

4 "It's plastic, sure, but it feels like the kind of lightweight plastic that toys are made out of." Light is good if you are carrying it all day. "It's basically point and shoot, no nonsense." Which in a stressful situation is a good thing. If you have to remember if you gun is cocked or uncochked, safty on or off when you want to use it, that could take vauable time. "And the trigger pull itself was way too light, which i can't believe is very safe" You can get a heavier trigger, which many do. It is called a New York Trigger. I know you have ruled out glock, but I still want to highlight why in some cases they things you don't like can be fixed or they are good things. Also, several of the things you don't like about the glock are fixed in the spring field XD. It has a fully supported chamber. It has the 1911 grip angle (the USP does also). It is a little heavier than the glock. Though it still has the DOA action, but it does have a grip saftly. As a side note, check out the price of the HK. It is an excellent handgun, but you also pay for the priviledge of owning one. Another thing about HK is that their customer service is not all that great (from stories I have heard), unless you are a police department or miltary department. That basiclly stems from the fact that in Europe their is no civillian gun market, but in America there is. So many european comapnies end up getting miltary contracts (IE HK and SIG picked up the DHS contract a year ago.)

5 Yes, Roach, but the HK can be configured by the user without the de-cocking lever if that is a concern.

6 That's the way to go with HK; either DAO or SAO style or DA/SA without decock (don't know if that last one's available). I also found ergonomics on it were weird, because when you pushed gun in front of you front sight pushed was low and you had to pull it up. Glock's high, but I'd rather see sight and align it that not see it and try to find it. But that's probably a matter of hand ergonomics that is neither here nor there. All three of these guns are good guns, but I urge you to run them through different drills besides square range drills to see which one you like. Consider how you'll use it, whether you'll carry, how easy is it to work controls under stress, how well does it shoot fast, how well does it shoot in low light etc. Plus get yourself a G2 Nitrolon by Surefire to go with any home defense gun.

7 Was ist mit dir los? Hast du Walter vergessen? Meine P-5 ist prima. Sie ist schnittig und zuverlässig. Wenn sie ladete ist, ist sie ganz sicher. Aber sie fast nur neun Patrone. Ich eige zwei Sig Pistolen und sie sind auch sehr gut. Aber du sollst eine P-5 oder P-5C ausprobieren. - Verstehst du mein schrechlich Deutsch? Tschüs!

8 WHAT! Outrage! No snarky comments on Brittny & Kevin's demon offspring?

9 Well, annie, I won't try to dissuade you. Guns are like wome. . . er, the opposite sex: There's no accounting for taste. To be fair, though, I did say the H&K has good ergonomics, and I certainly have no beef with its accuracy. (In general, though, accuracy and reliability are inversely related. E.g., the AK is noted for its reliability, but its accuracy is mediocre. Eugene Stoner's brainchild is an inherently accurate design, but not noted for going bang each time the trigger is pulled.) I very much doubt you'll find any Walther that you prefer to the H&K, if that's your cup of tea. For one thing, I don't think any of their current production full-sized pistols have external safeties. In fact, I'm hard-pressed to think of any DAO pistol that has a true external safety, other than (some configurations of) the H&K. (I assume you want DAO, not DA/SA? It's not completely clear from your post, but I really don't like mixing the two and I find it hard to imagine why anyone else would want to do so.) It's a shame; there are some great pistols out there that you're missing by insisting on an external safety and, apparently, DAO. Heck, you're excluding essentially the entire universe of revolvers! What would Harry Callahan say? On the other hand, if you do decide to go with the USP perhaps you'll be inspired to dress up like a blonde Lara Croft and have some pics taken -- pics that you'll then post here, naturally. (For the sake of the single guys, of course.) P.S.: I never get hit by ejected cases from my Glock. The precise direction that cases eject varies from individual pistol to individual pistol.

10 "itÂ’s a good case for keeping your booger-hook off the bang-switch" lol I admire H&K engineering. I don't know anything about their pistols, but their rifles are incredible. I used to have an H&K 91, what a weapon. Too fucking heavy to carry around unless you're Ahnold. The great thing about H&K is that they create a superior basic design, and then carry it through their entire series. Learn one weapon, you know the entire series.

11 One problem with DA/SA guns is that you have two different weighted trigger pulls, such that your first and second shots may go in very different places and your muscle memory on the trigger will be very different. One other advantage to glocks. I went through multiple 1911s an HK and a few other guns before settling on the Glock.

12 I gotta admit, I never saw the beef with the traditonal DA/Sa that most folks do. Way I see thing is that if you need to draw & fire in a hurry your trget is going ot be close enough where it won't matter much if your first shot is a few inches away from your second. If the target is far enough away where you have to be a little more deliberate with your aim, then cocking the pistol shouldn't be that much of an issue, or hauling ass to some cover while you do so for that matter. A DAO - I always thought it was yet another great solution in search of a real problem. The same could be said of the traditonal DA/SA but I think if it applies to the latter then it applies to the former by a factor of 3. Maybe it's just the way i was raised, but having an external safety never presented much of a problem for me. Flip it down on the draw then move the thumb below it. More motions than not messing with a safety at all, but for SA pistols it never seemed that much of a chore. I have a DA/Sa with a decocker & never ever had an unintentional decocking while shooting, even doing rapid fire drills. Again, could just be the way I was raised, but I don't see an eternal safety or a decocker as much of an issue. Jasen, I didn't know you spoke french. (& yes; I still remember the chambering you wanted to have a Garand built in. Heretic. lol) Matt, I think the young lady wants a traditonal DA/SA. I thought I recalled her not being enamored with the DAO things. & on behalf of single guys I appreciate the attempt to get her to post more pics. Alas, methinks the young lady is too modest. Roach, To each his/her own but I still don't see what the big deal is in transitioning from DA to SA in a pistol. If it is that big of a deal then a SA would be a better choice. Usually you get a lighter, crisper trigger pull. You'd have an eternal safety to deal with, but seeing as how miss Annika wants one of those I don't see it as much of an issue at all. & the gentleman you recommend from the LAPD SWAT team - you wouldn't know if he was part of the group of that august body that wanted the .50 BMG banned for civilians would ya? Robbie, Nope you're not alone. But to be fair you'd aks the same question if the subject was creamy pasta. Miss Annika, As enthusiastic as you seem to be about handguns I can't wait till you start trying out rifles. & I second (or perhaps third) the call for more pics of the reviewer with the reviewees. But lost causes are a habit of mine. CZ or EAA Witness. Try one of those next. Along with a Browning Hi Power. & a Beretta 92 (9mm)or 96 (.40 S&W/.357 SIG) or its Taurus equivilent (PT-92 or PT-100 repsectively) should be on your list as well (the main difference is the Taurus has its safety on the frame rather than on the slide, so it's more like a 1911 safety than a Walther safety). & give the .357 SIG cartridge a try. More expensive ammo but you might dig it. It's like a souped up 9mm more or less & is supposed to try to duplicate the .357 magnum's stopping power in an auto. Never set one off myself but always heard they were interesting to try out. Plus in theory the bottlenecked case of the .357 SIG is less prone to feeding errors than a straight walled case like the 9mm or .40 S&W has. & did I second (or third) the motion for more pics?

13 i'd post pictures, but since my range is a nudist range, they don't allow cameras, so sorry. ; )

14 Sketches then? A nice chalk? At least stick figures? We're really not that picky.

15 "my range is a nudist range" ... what's the address again?

16 Nobody'll believe it, but back in the old days three or four years ago, Anni had a stack of skin pics around here. I of course had the good judgment to save local copies of these. I particularly like those from the Jamaican vacation, mwahahahaa.

17 Well, Annie, if Publicola's right about your wanting a DA/SA pistol, then you probably should try the Beretta. That said, I personally think the Beretta is a GIGANTIC FUCKING PIECE OF SHIT THAT COULD ONLY HAVE BEEN DESIGNED BY PEOPLE WHO HAVEN'T WON A REAL WAR IN 2000 YEARS. In case it's not clear, I really, really, really, REALLY don't like the Beretta (or its clones). At all. I'm not just some old fart who's bitter about the decision to phase out The Greatest Pistol Ever Made -- you know, the one that single-handedly won two world wars, would vaporize a man's torso with one near miss, and in a pinch could serve as a not-half-bad anti-ballistic missile system. (Don't take my sarcasm the wrong way: I love the 1911. Some folks just tend to get carried away.) No, my animosity is born of intimate familiarity. I trained on the Beretta at The Basic School (and fired the highest pistol score in my class), carried it for seven years (three of which involved really carrying, Condition One in a shoulder holster, on a very regular basis), qualified expert with it seven times, supervised the training of literally hundreds of Marines with it, and later supervised an armory responsible for maintaining about a hundred of the infernal things. My distaste for the pistol arises from several factors, but the most egregious is the tendency of the locking block to crack when you need it, which puts the pistol down hard. (It usually won't even cycle once the block has cracked. Occasionally it will, though I wouldn't be keen on firing one that way.) It happened in 5 of the first 6 Berettas and Beretta clones that I ever fired, and the fun didn't stop there. When I was a platoon commander in a security force company our locking block breakage rate on any given trip to the range was rarely less than 10%, sometimes close to 20%. Admittedly, those guns got used harder than most are; nevertheless, I've never seen any pistol in which mechanical failure was so frequent or predictable. Beretta supposedly has redesigned the locking block to correct this problem. Yeah. And monkeys might fly out my butt. Screw me once, shame on you; screw me twice, shame on me; screw me dozens of times and you've made an enemy for life. Nothing anyone can say will ever persuade me to give the Beretta 92, or any of its clones or variants, another chance. I wouldn't allow one to defile my gunsafe by its presence if it were free. In fact, before I die I hope to travel to Italy again, this time for the express purpose of personally pissing on Bartolomeo Beretta's grave. This is the heir to the 1911? For that, may God have mercy on Ronnie Reagan's soul. That said, I'll at least give the Beretta defenders this much: It's quite accurate, and easy to shoot even though I really don't like the DA/SA transition. The grip's a bit oversized IMHO, but it's just a 9x19 and darn near as heavy as a GI .45 (maybe heavier, when both are fully loaded) so it doesn't really present a control problem. Not than any 9x19 ever really does. I certainly concur with the recommendation to try a CZ, and a BHP (though I was under the impression that you'd already tried one of the latter). I'd strongly recommend giving a Kahr a whirl, but I don't think Kahr makes a pistol with an external safety. Publicola, As to whether external safeties and DA/SA actions are big deals, it really all depends on the individual. The negatives can be trained around pretty well (not perfectly), as can just about anything. It largely depends on how much and how realistically one trains, and how well one handles stress. For the average person who doesn't train regularly, whose training doesn't involve any significant amount of stress, or who just doesn't respond well to stress even after lots of training, either one can cause problems. But even so, a person might reasonably conclude that, for him, the probability of problems due to a DA/SA action or an external safety is smaller than the probability of problems due to the lack thereof. (E.g., if you don't train much you may have problems keeping your finger off the trigger at inappropriate times, especially while under stress. This really is a prerequisite for using a pistol without an external safety. Heck, I've known people who were very well trained who've had "accidents" with Glocks.) And he might be right, just as another guy might be right to decide the opposite. As you say, to each his own.

18 I don't know how my name became ```````` in that last post but, just for the record, ```````` is me.

19 Dear ```````` (if that is indeed your real name) I've heard that about berettas (not beretta copies) & I'll be the frt to admit the pistol design isn't perfect. The grip is a bit wider than it perhaps should be; the trigger out of the box is not great (at least on Taurus' copies); The repetability of the slide/barrel connection isn't great (which means neither is the accuracy) & lastly it has a damned aluminum frame. Look, sya whatever you wish about aluminum being good enough for frames. That's cool. My contention is the weight. We're talking about a pistol with a 5" barrel (Taurus - the Beretta has a 4.9" barrel) . I ain't gonna be tucking this in th old ankle holster whilst I jog around the park. I'd have much prefered a steel frame just to add a few ounces to help soak up some recoil & make me feel a little better about testing my handloads in it. Beretta does have a steel framed version they came out with last year (IIRC) & it'd be cool if Taurus did likewise. But the locking block - from what I recall it seemed to be a metalurgy problem rather than an engineering one. But I'm not as up on that as I should be. & don't go urinating on P. Beretta's gravestone just yet. Before you do that I must remind you of the BM-59. you kno - the rifle that should have been G.I when they erroneously decided the Garand wasn't up to snuff (heretics - all of them!). Want to piss on someone's grave? Find the idiot in the JCS who figured that since the AF was doing fine with that mickey mouse looking poodle shooting french-designed-gas-systemed carbine that the boys ont he front line would be fine with it to. But lemme see... Marine, 1911 fan, throws in italics & other coding (presumably by hand) to stress points about why a handgun is or isn't cool, capitalizes glock like it's a proper name instead of a design fostered upon some folks by a P.T. Barnum wannabe from Georgia who had to have his product made in Austria (what was that about a country not winning a real war...*), & partial offers a refute to some of his own opinions...hmmm...If I didn't know better I'd say that reminds me a bit of a guy I know from some of the blogs. Now which one was it... Oh, & Miss Annika tried a BDM if I recall. Not quite a Hi Power. * sorry - had to slip that in there.

20 Since the 1911 is finally getting some of the respect it deserves, allow me to make the case. It's simple and safe in competent hands. Seven rounds to hit what's in front of you, and if he's survived that you can literally club him to death with it. It was a travesty when we bought that plastic piece of shit from the eyeties, but they were NATO allies and it was a bone.

21 In my experience, the locking block problem extends to Tauruses as well. I don't think it's a matter of metallurgy; it seems to be (or, allegedly, to have been) a matter of geometry. I actually consider the Beretta surprisingly accurate, all things considered. (It's every bit as accurate as a GI .45, and then some.) I've long thought that a tapered collar threaded onto the end of the barrel to act as a bushing could make it better -- heck, you could even port it, if you're into that -- but it's really not necessary for practical purposes. Accuracy isn't the problem. I freely admit that Beretta has made lots of good guns. The 38/42, the Model 12, a variety of shotguns and, yes, the BM-59 were/are all good. Even their pocket pistols aren't bad, as pocket pistols go. And that's to say nothing of Franchi and Benelli, both of which Beretta owns. But none of it -- NONE OF IT, I say -- redeems the colossal clusterfuck that is the Model 92/M9. Bartolomeo will pay. (I don't actually know who Pietro is. As far as I know, Bartolomeo is the first Beretta known to have been in the gunmaking business. I presume Pietro was one of his descendants, who founded the corporation we know today.) You do realize, of course, that Gaston Glock is an Austrian, and that they started making Glocks in Georgia only after they'd already been making them in Austria for some time? "partial offers a refute to some of his own opinions..." I did no such thing. I said it sucks, and it does. I just don't think it sucks in every way.

22 Matt, Actually I thought gaston was from Georgia but had his design made overseas. Then again I never really paid much attention to glock as I'm not a member of his fan club. & for some reason I thought Pietro was the first, but you are correct in that Bart started the whole thing & one of the Pietro's took the company into the modern manufacturing age. & I'd be interested to know more about the geometry problems, & most importantly when they did a redesign - if you happen to have some info handy. & I did hear back in the 90's that the Army Marksmanship Unit did have some sort of conelike barrel they used to make the M9's lock up more consistently. Can't recall if it was something they added onto existing barrels or if it was a specially made tube. & I wonder if miss Annika realized the kind of comments sections she'd have whenever she mentioned the word "gun" in one of her posts? I mean the discussions of likes & dislikes of certain models, designers, engineering, etc... was pretty much a given. But did she know we'd be asking for pics (or sketches, or chalks, or at least stick drawings - we're really not that picky) of her with the guns?

23 The locking block problem has unfortunately seems to have been fairly well hushed-up/minimized, so I don't know many details about the cause or the exact measures taken to fix it. I say that I think it was a geometry (design) problem because (1) it also happened with Tauruses, and I suspect Taurus wasn't using Beretta's steel to make its pistols and (2) references to a fix refer to "redesign" of the block. The only sources I've found that mentioned the problem have been quite vague as to its cause, and have always hastily concluded that it's all fixed and everything's OK now. See above for my response to that. Probably the simplest form of research would be to buy a new locking block and compare it to an old one (if you could find one). But I'll leave that to people who actually care. The 92 is dead to me.

24 I absolutely love my H&K USP Compact .45 with only one caveat. The damn mags are $50+. With enough mags to feel comfortable, I spent the price of a new Taurus Millenium. Other readers have commented that you should try the Springfield XD and I second that. I carry the H&K in the winter when I have plenty of clothes to cover it (the gun being fairly chunky), but in the summer I carry the XD40 Compact for the smaller silhouette. The XD is almost as nice as the H&K but with an easier take down to clean and a much lower price.

25 'cola Now that I own a Garand, I contend that I never said anything about rechambering a Garand..... I swear it....... I was talking about a MAS 49/56...you misread....or perhaps you're projecting your twisted chamber preferences on me... you've got a Garand chambered in .35 Whelen don't ya or maybe a 25-06 hidden in the back of the closet.(lol) BTW where can I reference SN's for the old girl, she's a bit of a Frankenrifle, but I'd like to know where she's been at least in part.

26 Jasen, I used to know of a site that gave as much info as could be found (what unit a rifle was assigned to - at most) but alas I can't recall the url. There is a site that wil give you a date for the SN. I'll dig it up & try to e-mail it to ya. & yes, you clearly said, "-But hey since we're dreaming could I have a Garand chambered for 5.56x45mm. **Jasen exits swiftly, as he hears Publicola fumbling for a clip for his Garand and mumbling," insolent,good fer nothin'heretic"**" & for the record I'm not a purist; a Garand in damn near any '06 or .308 Win case based chambering is alright. Even did some digging once for the cost of barreling a Garand in 7x57 (just for the helluvit as Mr. du Toit always liked that cartridge). But you will not that even the .243 Winchester (which a Garand could be chambered for) willl take down a deer, unlike the cartridge-that-shall-not-be-named. Matter o' fact there's a fella up in Washington state (IIRC) named McCann who outfits Garands in .338 Win Mag. & people said Garands wouldn't make decent African plains rifles. heh. Matt, I appreciate the info. & I understand how ya feel. But just so ya know it could be worse, here's a Handgun Club of America article on the Ten Worst Handguns in History. I can't say my list would be the same but they do bring out some good (err, bad) points.

27 A long time ago, I found myself in Kangneung, a city on the northeast coast of South Korea, when I walked by a large tank filled with live octopi. Gripped by a sudden urge, I leaped over to the tank, grabbed an octopus, aimed it at some plastic jugs about fifty yards away, and blasted every single jug on the first try-- all without ever having had prior training at firing octopi. The next day I went back and started experimenting with other sea creatures, and finally settled on the Korean "nakji" (dwarf octopus) and "ojing-aw" (squid) as my arms of choice. Since then, I've taken courses run by some ex-Special Forces guys, and now consistently rate "Kickass" with both molluscs. After about 500 rounds, the nakji tends to heat up and stiffen, which can affect accuracy, but also makes for a tasty meal. (I don't recommend eating your firearm in the middle of a firefight, though.) The ojing-aw is fantastic for long-range kills: I took the head off a dog at about 500 yards (soup's on!). The ojing-aw's main problem (aside from the stench, which only worsens over time) is the frequent jamming. Keep your ojing-aw clean and well-inked, and it'll serve your assassination needs for a long time. Nakji, unfortunately, carry a bit too much ink, so after you buy one, you have to field-strip it, remove the ink sac, and reassemble it. I've had no problems with this approach. I've heard that the Italian calamari is, like the Beretta mentioned by other commenters above, pretty accurate, though I've also heard that it tends to wriggle a bit too much in your grip. Women agree that calamari do make better condoms than ojing-aw, though ("Fluked for Her Pleasure"). The coolest thing about the nakji is that the tentacles wrap securely around your ankle, making the dwarf octopus the perfect concealed weapon. For men, the nakji can be worn like a fanny pack and disguised to look rather convincingly like a scrotum. Try not to load your nakji with .50 caliber rounds, however; I've heard scary stories about some truly messy misfires. In a pinch, most molluscs also serve as decent surrogates for tonfa, kusarigamma, and the Chinese three-section staff. One of Bruce Lee's lesser-known pre-Hollywood works, "Damn You, I'll Sprain Your Soul," shows the Little Dragon defeating an entire gang of Japanese thugs with a lightning-quick Nine-Tentacle Technique. Kevin

28 Kevin, Dude, you just ain't right. I read somewhere that ojing-aw/calamari enjoys great popularity as a stand-alone sex toy when used whole and alive. Any comments?

29 I have the H&K USP in .40 S&W and I love it. Incredibly accurate. Thanks for explaining why the recoil is so light...that ''thingamabob''.

30 Matt, What am I supposed to say? You asking me whether I've jammed a live octopus up my urethra? SHIT, no, I haven't. But thanks for the idea. My weekend now has a fuckin' PURPOSE. Kevin

31 Well, if you're in Korea and looking to have sex, at least the Octopussy doesn't smell like Kimchae.

32 Nice range report. Did you send it into the Carnival of Cordite? (See Ferdy's Carnival submission page over at Conservative Cat.)

33 I've been ignoring this posting because I am but a simple soul. When I fire my weapon, I expect it to be at about 7 to 10 years maximum. I have a simple Glock 9MM. It has high power, hollow nose slugs that will stop whatever I hit. (Chesty Puller said "You don't hurt 'em if you don't hit 'em") But Kevin, you need to take your meds. Casca, everything in Korea smells like kimche.

34 Nah, you need to cleanse your senses with Soju. In truth, Korean women are lovely enough to be forgiven the halotocular stench of garlic.

35 Someone is conspicuously silent. However, next week is the first real team, someone other than the Little Sisters of the Poor. I can't wait to see the prophylactics take a stab at the Beavers.

36 I had to leave at halftime last night to take my grandson home, did USC pull it out? I was curious to hear how the Numero Uno Offense in the nation did against the untested USC Defense. If you are talking abbut the Rubber Duckies, I'd guess that USC will be about a 21 1/2 point favorite. Morning line out tomorrow afternoon sometime. Does Cal play anybody challenging before USC? UCLA might give them a game, come to think of it. They ate Oklahoma's lunch yesterday as well. Oklahomans will not be talking about the wimps in the PAC 10 any time soon. Methinks they've had enough of Southern California football for a while.

37 You get some of the strangest comments here.... :-) I'm glad you found something you like and can shoot well. You'd better watch out, though, as guns tend to be highly addictive. If you like HKs, the next thing you know you're going to be toting an HK-91 and hanging out on the corner with a sign that says "Will work for ammo".

38 Vanderbilt? VANDERBILT?? It's like beating small girls! Ah yes the Rubbers Vs Ducks match. We shall see. It's hard to judge a team when they're playing others who are inferior to their own seconds. I'm sure they're heavily favored, but they're a tough bunch up there, and as we all know, when it rains the wheels fall off the chariot in the mud. I recall when the mighty Hurricanes were invincible just three short years ago. Someone always comes along and wakes you up. I'm thinking it's that Weir fellow.

39 "...and hanging out on the corner with a sign that says 'Will work for ammo." Like that's a bad thing (Not that I've ever done it myself. Personally. Everyday. For weeks on end.)

40 Remember, technically the SIG is Swiss and the Glock is Austrian. Only the HK and Walther are properly German. Honestly, the whole safeties thing is a matter of preference, but remember, any gun is absolutely safe from bad-trigger-control/dropping/unholstering discharges if there's no round in the chamber, and if you practice, a draw-rack-aim-fire sequence is pretty darn fast. I personally can't stand DAO either, unless the trigger is light and consistent (as Glocks are reputed to be, but somehow I've never gotten around to firing one...).

1 Annika, Nice range report. I'm impressed by your extended range work before buying. (I'm also impressed by the time you have for blogging and the range while in law school. When I was a Baylor, I hardly had time for breathing.) You'd be surprised how many people impulse-buy a pistol. My wife and I have his-and-hers Springfield XDs in .40 S&W, which we're quite happy with. When we tried it at the range before buying, the grin on her face said, "Yeah. This is the one."

2 Don't buy without taking the Glock 9 MM for a test drive...

3 I believe that the ammo they sell you at the range are called "wadcutters", for the very reason that all they need to do is make holes in paper. All of the above stuff is true, but you will note that ranges do not allow you to bring your own ammo. Take a walk in a quiet part of the country, away from where people live, and some tin cans or other type targets and see the difference between the wadcutters and the real thing.

4 If you like .40's you should really give the Glock 23 a try. It is chambered for the .40 but has a small enough frame to be easy on folks with small hands. I'm not a huge fan of S&W for Auto's ( they seem to jam more than other's for me ) although some people swear by them. My choices in order of brand for 40 would be Glock 23, H&K USP chambered for .40, Sig Sauer P229, and only as a last resort I would go with a S&W or Ruger P94. I like auto's but not nearly as much as I love my true passion which is large bore revolvers. My current favorite is my .454 Casull. I hunted with it a while back and took a nice deer with it. You really can't beat it for reach out and touch something power. For personal defense though it would be a bit much So give the Glock 23 a chance if you can and let us know what you think. Also steer clear of 9mm they simply don't have enough knock down power unless the round hits in exactly the right spot which can be hard to do under pressure even for people who have been well trained. In school they told us most urban gunfire exchanges take place at under 7 yards and 90 percent of all shots are missed. Not sure if it's true or not but that is what our instructors told us. ( Marine Corps. CQB training Chesapeak Va. ) So even more important than knock down power is that you have to be able to hit something when that something is trying to kill you.

5 Shelly, most ranges let you use any ammo you want in your guns. There's one around here that insists you buy their ammo for anything you shoot & I avoid that place. Most all ranges do make you buy their ammo for rentals. & wadcutters are a type of ammo that is sold at ranges (usually) but it's not 'the" kind, just "a" kind. Glocks - feh. If anyone likes them so be it. But with glocks two things come to mind - they have an unsupported chamber which means using really high pressured rounds might not be a good idea. The other is more common - they have polygonal rifled barrels. More or less this means using eposed lead (i.e. no jacket) ammo is discouraged. An aftermarket barrel takes care of both of those problems but still - no, I won't go into it. It's just a matter of preference. But glocks never fascinated me. Then again I never cared for any pistol w/o an exposed hammer.

6 Never heard of the Casull, but my brother had a 454 Chevy that he absolutely loved.

7 As Publicola rightly pointed out, the .357 is longer than the .38 Spl. If Range Dude isn't aware of that simple, well-known fact, Range Dude is not someone from whom you should take advice on firearms. I won't get into the specific of these particular pistols. (I do second the suggestion that you should check out a Glock or two.) Generally speaking, though, I recommend that anyone interested in buying only one handgun for self-defense and general plinking choose a revolver, unless he/she plans to do a great deal of practicing. Semi-autos are just plain harder to learn to use effectively; there's more than can go wrong with them and it takes a fair amount of training and practice to learn to deal effectively with potential problems -- especially under stress.

8 Matt, course the counter argument is that with some training (not quite as much as I think you're implying) those potential problems with semi's can be solved on the spot with minimal fuss. With revolvers a problem usually involves tools & a set of schematics to sort out (granted such problems are rare but it wouldn't be an argument if it was nonexistent). Revolvers are great & I don't mean to knock them at all but I don't think it's that much harder to learn to work a semi. Now a good argument in favor of revolvers would be that they're omnivorous. A semi needs a certain power level of ammo to work reliably. A revolver can shoot a full power cartridge right after a subsonic target round followed by a shot round with just a pull of the trigger (course the shot round may bind - best to try those out in each revolver to be sure). & there's always the tried & true argument my grandfather used on me when I tried to talk him into getting a semi - if ya can't hit it with 6 shots you need to be running. But in the end it's a matter of preference. If a person feels more comfy with a semi, cool. Ditto for revolvers. Course I am surprised that miss Annika took Range Dude at his word when he said that his (.38 Spl) was just as long as the other one (.357 Magnum) was. I thought all women, especially California women weren't that trusting when it came to a guy's sense of measurement...Or maybe size doesn't really matter after all?

9 "reliable (it jammed only once)" That is NOT reliable for a carry gun. Though I do understand you are using range guns, which you should not hold it against them if they jam because normally the guns are not well cared for. Though if you find a range gun that you like and it jams, try to find another example of it owned by a person. Also read about it on the net and take a look at the customer service and see how good it is.

10 you guys are harshing on the nice range dude so much, i have to come to his defense. due to my sloppy sentence structure it looks like i attributed that statement about the cartridges being the same size to him. Actually the only thing he said was about the wadding. What happened was that he showed me a .357 cartridge and put it next to a .38 cartridge to compare. It was i who thought the cases were the same size (although i did notice a difference in length, which i attributed to the bullet) My bad.

11 There is very little I can add to the current debate waging in here other than this. For home defense, the best weapon you will ever buy will be a shotgun. The pistols work great when you're out and about, but when you are stumbling around in the dark at 3:00am, the best way to hit your target is with a 12 gauge and a full choke.

12 Charlie is absolutely right. If you are buying only one gun, and it's for self-defense, and you don't care about being able to carry it concealed, a shotgun (and here I prefer the semi-autos to pumps because of the high probability of short-stroking under stress [get your minds out of the gutter!]) is very, very hard to beat. And it's cheap. And it's only slightly less destructive than a tactical nuclear weapon. Now we can have a lengthy, spirited debate about the proper choice of shot size for said shotgun. This place is starting to remind me of some of the shooting boards I used to frequent! Publicola, I love semi-autos -- some of my favorite handguns are semi-autos -- and lean heavily toward them, but I stand by my recommendation of revolvers for relatively unpracticed shooters. Here's why. If you have a misfire with a revolver (and of course I'm assuming we're talking a DA revolver, here), the immediate action is simple: Pull the trigger again. That's it. Whatever was wrong with the last cartridge is now irrelevant, because the simple, reflexive act of pulling the trigger cycles that cartridge out of the way and gives you a second chance almost instantly. (Of course if your firing pin is broken you're screwed, but that could happen with a semi-auto, too.) If you have a misfire with a semi-auto, your pistol is out of action until you clear the chamber and get a fresh round in there. You will, if you've been properly trained and have practiced until it has become second nature, remember to execute "tap-rack-bang." If that doesn't solve the problem, you'll hopefully remember to hunker down behind cover and execute the much longer procedure for that situation. If you haven't been properly trained, or haven't practiced until it has become second nature, you'll pull the trigger real hard once or twice more, realize that Bessy ain't gonna go boom, turn her sideways and look dumbly at her for a second or so, and then start trying to remember/figure out your immediate action. (Of course if you have a truly DA semi-auto, or one with an external hammer that can be thumbed back, you can try a quick follow-up with the same cartridge. That may do the trick, but it may not. If seconds count, I'd prefer not to waste time fiddling with a cartridge that's already screwed me once.) A revolver will never stovepipe, fail to extract, fail to eject, double feed, or do nearly any of the other nasty, ammo-related things that our beloved semis sometimes do. (Or if it does fail to extract for some reason, it'll only be an issue after you've emptied the cylinder at the bad guys. That's a lot better than having it happen after the first round.) A revolver has no magazines that can become dented, or whose lips can get bent, or whose follower spring can become anemic -- all of which can take a magazine and thus the entire gun out of action. A revolver doesn't care if you stuff it with some weird hollow-point that would never work reliably in your semi-auto of choice without a massive reconfiguration of the feed ramp. In fact, as you pointed out a revolver doesn't much care what the hell you feed it, as long as it's of the appropriate caliber. A revolver will never need its feed ramp or throat polished in order to function reliably. A revolver doesn't have a safety that you'll forget to flip to "fire" under stress. (Of course, to be fair, some modern semi-autos don't have external safeties, either. But they usually have much shorter trigger pulls than revolvers and, as a result, are apt to go bang if you get careless with your trigger finger -- which, again, people tend to do under stress.) Speaking from personal experience in situations much less stressful than actual threats to life and limb, the typical reaction when one forgets that the safety's on is -- again -- to pull the trigger real hard once or twice. This practically never makes a semi-auto go bang, at least if it's a quality firearm that hasn't been monkeyed with. It will almost always make a revolver go bang. By definition, the chamber on a revolver is always fully supported. It is relatively hard to blow up a revolver, even if you handload carelessly. (Of course it can be done -- it's just harder than with most semi-autos.) This should not be an issue for a shooter using factory ammo and a quality, modern handgun designed for that ammunition, but it's worth mentioning. These are the main reasons I recommend revolvers for shooters who don't practice a great deal and/or haven't received much training with semi-autos.

13 Matt, you don't comment here enough. have i ever told you that? : ) Anyways, if i was a smartass, or if i really had more experience with the things, i might say that all of the above problems you mentioned with semi-autos could be solved by simply purchasing a Sig Sauer. i should also alert you shotgun fans that your arguments have merit. However, you may not know (how could you, i didn't know until three weeks ago) that i absolutely love target shooting. i really do. i can't imagine buying a shotgun and just letting it sit in the closet for that rainy day when i could be over at my favorite range cutting pretty patterns in a piece of paper. Oh i could take up trap shooting, but i'm juggling too many hobbies as it is. Besides, i should brief cases once in a while, don't you think? Please stay tuned for upcoming "New Gun Nut Progress Reports." On deck is a post entitled: "The Becker Stance?" and "Reasons Why i Want... errrr... Need Three Guns."

14 You clearly are a smartass, but that's part of what makes you the Annie we know and love. I ne'er speak ill of the Swiss or Germans (SIG-Sauer is both, actually; SIG was Swiss, Sauer was German) when it comes to chocolate or fine machinery, including guns. (I'd add beer, but I've had a couple of really horrible Swiss beers.) That said, their semi-autos are vulnerable to the same general problems as the rest of the class; they're just not as vulnerable as most. Staying tuned . . .