January 12, 2006
What Is The Goal Of Diplomacy?
There was quite a lengthy question and answer period yesterday with State Department spokesman Sean McCormack at his
daily press briefing. The key quote is that the admistration now believes it is "more likely than ever" that Iran will be referred to the U.N. Security Council for resuming their nuclear research program.
I'll excerpt some of the press conference in detail because Mr. McCormack expanded on a question I had been pondering myself regarding the diplomatic option: Assuming we get Iran referred to the U.N. Security Council, what good is that going to do? You tell me if his answer makes you feel any better.
QUESTION: When you say this is likely to go to the Security Council, what is the goal of . . . sending it to the UN Security Council? Is it an effort to institute some punitive measures against Iran? Is it an effort to increase pressure on Iran to get it back to the negotiating table? I mean, what is the aim of actually moving it to the Council?
MR. MCCORMACK: Thanks for your question. As we have talked about, the goal of these diplomatic activities is to address Iran's failure to live up to its international obligations. Under -- countries sign treaties and under those treaties they say that they have certain rights. Well, along with those rights come certain obligations, to live up to the -- what you have signed up to in the treaty. In this case, it's the Nonproliferation Treaty.
The IAEA Board of Governors has found that Iran is in noncompliance with its treaty obligations. The goal of this diplomatic exercise is to bring Iran into compliance with its treaty obligations.
Now, what they say is that they want to be able to develop a peaceful nuclear program to provide energy for the Iranian people. Now, put aside the fact that they have some of the world's largest hydrocarbon reserves, and I think it's a legitimate question to ask why they need nuclear energy when they have all these energy reserves. Put that aside.
So what the international community has done, the Russian Government in particular, they have laid out for the Iranian regime a proposal that addresses their desire to have peaceful nuclear -- to develop peaceful nuclear power while giving objective guarantees to the international community that they will not use the activities -- their peaceful nuclear power activities to develop a nuclear weapon. That is what the international community suspects that they are doing right now, that for the past 15-plus years, they have, under the cover of a peaceful nuclear program, sought to develop, systematically, a nuclear weapons program.
Now, finally, these activities have come to light. The IAEA has a long list of questions concerning these activities. The EU-3 has grave concerns about Iran's activities. Russia has serious concerns about Iran's activities. We have gotten to the point now where the world understands that Iran cannot be allowed to develop a nuclear weapon. That would be a destabilizing event.
So, over the past year, the international community has come together. They have come together to try to send a clear, strong message to the Iranian regime to negotiate in a serious manner, to get Iran back in compliance with its NPT obligations. And the EU-3, as well as the Russian Government, have laid out serious, fair proposals to achieve that. Thus far, the Iranian Government has chosen not to take them up on those offers, so we now find ourselves in the position where, because of Iran's actions, it is more likely than ever they will find themselves before the Security Council on this issue.
QUESTION: But to what end? I mean, I know you said you --
MR. MCCORMACK: I think I just went through a long --
QUESTION: No, no, no, but -- I mean, are you trying to change Iranian behavior or are you just trying to cite them for noncompliance? I mean, you can do that at the IAEA.
MR. MCCORMACK: ThatÂ’s what this has been about, changing their behavior.
QUESTION: So -- but through negotiations or through punitive measures?
MR. MCCORMACK: We have sought diplomatic -- to achieve a change in behavior and still seek to change Iranian's -- Iran's behavior through diplomatic channels.
QUESTION: So you still think there's a chance? (inaudible) made a rather strong speech about a month ago to a university in Virginia, I forget which, and -- you know, he was quite -- it was a quite ominous speech, that they have one more redline to cross. There are reports now that they got 5,000 centrifuges to go. ThereÂ’s already platforms built for them and a nuclear weapons center. Do you really think there's still a way to keep them from developing nuclear weapons?
MR. MCCORMACK: Well, that's why we're working so hard on this, Barry.
QUESTION: I know.
MR. MCCORMACK: That's why the President and the Secretary and a lot of other people in this government are spending so much time on this issue, because it is so important. It's serious business and that is, I think, the shared realization and the shared view of the -- many European countries and a number of other countries on the IAEA Board of Governors. That's why we're working so hard at this, Barry.
QUESTION: How does getting Iran into the Security Council further your goal of bringing them into compliance?
MR. MCCORMACK: Well, it is a diplomatic next step, Saul. They've already been found in noncompliance and the hope is that once they have now found themselves before the Security Council, that that would be an incentive for them to engage in serious negotiations on this issue. There have already -- as we talked about at length yesterday, there have already been consequences for Iran, in the fact that they find themselves almost completely isolated from the rest of the world on this -- most of the world on this issue.
You want to account for the fact that perhaps they have miscalculated in the steps that they have taken, their failure to engage in serious negotiations. So, the thought, again, as it always has been with the possibility of referral to the Security Council, is to send an even stronger diplomatic signal to the Iranian regime that they need to comply with their international treaty obligations. And the world will not stand aside as they drive towards building a nuclear weapon.
QUESTION: But Sean, they did everything they possibly could to push it to the UN Security Council, because you said that if they don't come back to the negotiations, that's exactly where it's going. And they did exactly what they said they were going to do, knowing that you were going to refer them to the Security Council. So, what makes you think moving it to the Security Council is going to change their behavior when they knew all along it was going this --
MR. MCCORMACK: Well, again, we have not gotten to that point, but if, in fact, Iran does end up at the Security Council -- the very fact that you are there, that they have crossed those lines that have caused the international community to put that issue before the Security Council, perhaps that is a signal that is strong enough to the Iranian regime that would get them to the negotiating table, in a serious way, to address these concerns.
. . .
QUESTION: . . . So, if I'm interpreting you correctly, the short-term goal is, get them referred to the UN Security Council so that they realize they've miscalculated -- so that they realize the international community really is serious about this and the consequence of that is, they go back to the negotiating table.
MR. MCCORMACK: Well, our hope has always been, Saul, to resolve this through diplomatic means through negotiation, so that -- and our hope is that Iran will change its behavior. That's why we go through these diplomatic processes. The process is not an end in and of itself. It's a means to an end. The end -- the desired end is to change Iranian behavior.
[emphasis added]
I think the unnamed reporter had it correct. Iran knew that the consequence of provoking the international community on this issue might be a referral to the Security Council. They also know that the wheels of international law move very slowly and uncertainly. The Iranians need time, and the diplomatic option gives them time.
Posted by: annika at
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But, also keep in mind that this is a
State Department spokesman. He is obligated by his job description to champion diplomacy. He may have wanted to scream
"I know, I know, it's a fruitless effort and we'll be bombing by next tueday, but, look, we gotta dot the i's and cross the t's otherwise the howling moonbats will scream that we wanted a war, not a peaceful resolution."
Also, interesting that, instead of "petroleum", he used the word "hydrocarbon". I haven't heard that word in yeeeeeeears!
Posted by: Tuning Spork at January 12, 2006 08:30 PM (MlTWc)
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somebody once said that diplomacy is like talking-nice to a mad dog until you are able to kneel down and grab a rock.
Posted by: reliapundit at January 15, 2006 09:33 PM (QmI9R)
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And, if President, you would do ....?
Posted by: will at January 20, 2006 12:19 PM (GzvlQ)
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January 11, 2006
Turning The Process Into A Game
I suppose I should be happy that the "new media" is around to do this kind of thing and keep everybody honest, but the following post at
Blogs For Bush horrified me:
As of 3:00pm today, Judge Alito has already answered more questions than Justice Ginsburg did in her entire hearing.
Judge Alito:
441 Questions Asked
431 Answered
Answered 98 %
Justice Ginsburg:
384 Questions Asked
307 Answered
Answered 80%
So much for the Democrats' claims that Alito hasn't been forthcoming.
I'm horrified that the confirmation process has become so insanely partisan that my side is ready to bicker about percentages!
It's reductio ad absurdum.
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I saw this comment on another blog but it was so good that I am repeating it here. A good explanation of why" the confirmation process has become so insanely partisan."
"In the post-moderist influenced vision of the judiciary, such as that articulated by Larwence Tribe, it is the moral responsibility of everyone to use whatever power granted to them by virtue of their office to advance the common good as they see it. This vision makes judges more like philosopher-kings who can make sweeping changes based on their own belief in the best policy.
The simple human desire to have an impact on the world and to do good gradually tempts judges into abandoning their traditional role of "umpires" to become policy makers. Since there are few opportunities to create an impact by upholding traditional interpretations of the law, judges find themselves resorting to the novel legal theories of the Left.
Sadly, this trend is destroying the very institution of the judicary just as post-moderism has destroyed academia and journalism. People no longer view these institutions as impartial or objective but as mere political partisans. Supreme court nominations are such ugly fights now precisely because we assume that judges will rule based on their belief in best policy, not in tenets of the law".
Shannon Love
Posted by: Jake at January 11, 2006 06:07 PM (r/5D/)
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The weird thing is that all this nuttiness just makes Alito look better. Do the Dems realize that this is backfiring badly on them?
Posted by: Pursuit at January 11, 2006 07:51 PM (n/TNS)
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Reductio Ad Absurdum? Isn't he running for Hillary's seat? Or, was it Boxer's?
Posted by: gcotharn at January 11, 2006 10:12 PM (Pzodr)
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Hello,
As bad as this is its nothing to the disgrace that was heaped upon Justice Thomas. He was pilloried for being a sucessful republican black man. I'm surprised any black person would vote democratic after that. I blame George Bush #1 for that debacle. He didn't anticipate how bad the opposition would be, say what you want about his boy... He doesn't get caught in that kind of situation.
Drake
Posted by: Drake Steel at January 12, 2006 06:31 AM (m7gJG)
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I've been watching quite a bit of this and haven't found it as ugly as some---at least not from the Right. The fact is that there is a complete and total ass-kicking going on and it's Democrat ass that is getting kicked. There is not a single Democrat Senator that is within 30 IQ points of Alito. They appear completely incapable of asking a decent follow-up question. From a political point of view, they haven't found the theme or sound-bite that is going to turn the pubic against the nominee. The Democrats look mean and stupid, (which, of course, they are). Alito looks erudite (and, at times, a little bored.)
Posted by: Blu at January 12, 2006 07:59 AM (CnLYQ)
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I think everyone in this process is looking bad. I think the Republicans look whiny because they won't support the president unless *all* of the nominees meet a certain criteria, and the Democrats look just plain dumb because they're repeating the same questions that, if they took the time to think about it, aren't calculated to tell them very much that's helpful anyway. And digging up files from an alumni association connected with Alito's school? Just stupid.
This is also part of the problem with thinking that a "record" means very much when you're talking about SCOTUS, at least nowadays. Republicans and Democrats -- liberals and conservatives, if you prefer -- are both now stuck with either arguing to enforce laws they don't like so they don't look like judicial activists, or appearing hypocritical by by arguing for judges to enforce their ideal version of the laws.
I don't think the problem is post-modernism; I think the problem is that we're slowly losing the ability to be respectful of opposing viewpoints. The two-party system has taken on a very "my way or the highway" feel and immaturity has taken hold. I think that has a lot to do with why confirmations -- and just about everything nowadays -- are so contentious.
Posted by: The Law Fairy at January 12, 2006 11:40 AM (XUsiG)
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Drake,
I don't think Judge Thomas was attacked by the committee for being a successful black republican. That's your revisionist wish. HE was attacked for being a poor rendition of a supreme court nominee. The ABA said he was substandard:qualified but with the lowest rating. Nonetheless Bush 1 sang his praises and said without qualification that "he was the best man he could find and the most qualified". Both lies. Thomas was the most qualified black conservative lackie he could find, no doubt. It is no wonder then that Thomas ran into trouble. The bitter irony is that he rails against affirmative action as a dignity robbing policy that he believes causes blacks to be viewed, no matter how successful, as undeserving because they were "assisted" yet he was Bush Sr's affirmative action nominee: unqualified yet assisted because he was black. How degrading that must have been for him and continues to be. Degrading for our country too. And lets not forget poor Judge Scalia having to walk round all day with Clarence's nose up his ass.
He has also become a greedy bastard. "Thomas has reported accepting much more valuable gifts than his Supreme Court colleagues over the last six years, according to their disclosure forms on file at the court.
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/1231-04.htm
Blu,
Speaking of the mean spirited Democrats, I guess they put on the lambs clothes when they hired that hack David Brock, to pen the fallacious character assination of Anita Hill.
Posted by: strawman at January 12, 2006 04:37 PM (0ZdtC)
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Anita Hill is a liar and a political whore.
Anita Hill was never a nominee for the Supreme Court.
David Brock is not a Republican Senator. (He is, in fact, currently a Left-wing pole smoker.)
Edward Kennedy, Pat Leahy, Joe Biden, and Chucky Schumer are Democratic Senators and---with the exception of Schumer---are all dumb. With no exception, they are all mean-spirited.
Too easy..... Frankly, I expect a little more from you. Come on Strawman, Bring It!
Posted by: Blu at January 12, 2006 05:33 PM (CnLYQ)
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Yesterday it was The Alito's wife. Today it may be Arlen Specter. The drama, the expectation is thrilling. This is more fun than a massive rat killing at the local landfill. The brain-damaging meltdown from a whiney-ass Republican is always expected when they begin talking about their mamas or their wives or their relationship with the Lord or their dogs. So . . . who will it be today who explodes in a slobbering display of the emotional chaos and psychological shattering that naturally emerges and overwhelms when one realizes one's family values and deeply felt Christian love is really nothing more than a hustler's greed and a pimp's lust for power? These Senate confirmation hearings are a real hoot. Are you people insane? Yes Annika, he did answer all those questions. Keep on mind most of 'em came from republican senators who ask the stupid questions like, "Are you willing to uphold precedents that favor our american values. I mean come on, let us get real! This biggot Alito didn't even asnwer correctly a question in which they asked him if the president can declare war! We all know the answer is no. How stupid can you be, this man scares me.
Strawman, stay away from this blog. It seems like you are the only one with sense here.
Posted by: Gavin M at January 12, 2006 07:30 PM (f4zhc)
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Gavin,
How does a person manage to take up so much space and say absolutely nothing of substance?
I spent some time reading Left-Wing blogs yesterday and found much of the same sort of bile. In fact, there were several comments along the lines of yours. Do you people just plagerize each other? One truly telling comment I saw was referenced towards Alito's wife. It said "she should go fuck herself." Ah, the brain power on the Left is truly impressive.
So, Alito is a "bigot." No doubt, you have discerned this from his writings. Correct? Of course not. I suspect like most Lefties, you don't actually read anything. (In fact, have you ever even taken a peep at the Constitution? Federalist Papers? Lots of big words in the Federalist Papers, and multiple authors, so you might want to avoid the challenge.)
You people read off the same script. Throwing words out like bigot without proof only proves my point. You can't win on substance, so you make things up. CAP, by the way, opposed (and continues to oppose) affirmative action, which is, of course, nothing more than institutionalized racism. Only in the Orwellian world of the Left is one a bigot for opposing bigotry.
Both Alito and Roberts are far better qualified and infinitely smarter than both of Clinton's picks. Their command of case law sans notes is a testament to their intellect. They both made Senate Democrats look like the idiots they are. What a contrast, though, between how Republicans treated Clinton's picks and how the Democrat's treat Bush's nominees. Despite being far to the Left of the mainstream, both of Clinton's picks received overwhelming Republican support and were treated with the dignity and respect they were due.
Interesting that Alito "scares" you, when I suspect somebody like Ruthy G., who was the lead attorney for a far-Left, fringe organization, the ACLU, does not.
Posted by: Blu at January 13, 2006 09:16 AM (CnLYQ)
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The question was not whether the President can declare war (see CNN story at end). The question was whether a US president would have to secure approval from lawmakers in Congress before launching an invasion of Syria or Iran. Making vs declaring.
*NO* President is going to argue as Commander-in-Chief that the President needs congressional approval to initiate "military action" as Biden asked. Did Clinton have for approval before launching tomahawk missiles? Bush 41 before Panama? Since Congress has essentially passed on using its authority to declare war for the last 60 plus years despite numerous instances of major and minor employment of military capabilities, what President is going to cede complete authority for military action to the Congress.
Perhaps Alito could have reminded the committee of John Locke's (whom the framers of the Consitution has read extensively) words regarding executive power - "the power [of the executive] to act according to discretion for the public good, without the prescription of the law and sometimes even against it." Since the fundamental law that the executive ultimately must implement is to preserve society, Locke adds "fit that the laws themselves should in some cases give way to the executive power, or rather to this fundamental law of nature and government, viz. that as much as may be, all members of society are to be preserved."
Or perhaps Senator Biden might have asked an actually relevant question not designed to get Alito to slip up. For example, is Section 3 of Public Law 93-148 that discusses Presidential consultation with Congress before introducing armed forces binding? What does the word "in every possible instance" imply? Does "introduction of armed forces" mean people only (so you can bomb as long as you don't put boots on the ground?)?
You complain about softball questions from the Republicans. The Democrats asked questions designed to trip him up for a soundbite moment as opposed to engaging in any sound debate, especially when all recent nominees make it clear they won't discuss a hypothetical future case.
Ted Kennedy voted against David Souter after Souter's hearing because of a fear Souter would "turn back the clock on the historic progress of recent decades.” - so much for what congressional questioning shows about a nominee.
And, it's bigot, not biggot...as in the line from Porky's - "you're too stupid to even be a good bigot."
From CNN
"The constitution divides the powers related to making war between the president and the Congress. It gives Congress the power to declare war. It gives Congress the power of the purse," Alito said during his Senate confirmation hearing.
However "the president has the power of a commander-in-chief," Alito told members of the Senate Judiciary Committee.
Alito's remarks came in response to a hypothetical question asking if he believed the US president would have to secure approval from lawmakers in Congress before launching an invasion of Syria or Iran.
Democratic US Senator Joseph Biden nevertheless prodded Alito for his position on the issue.
"It's really kind of important whether or not you think the president does not need the authority of the United States Congress to wage a war where there is not an imminent threat against the United States," Biden said.
Biden, the top Democrat on the Senate's Foreign Relations Committee, said that the Bush administration argues that the president is not constitutionally required to obtain congressional approval for launching military action.
"That's a pretty central question," Biden said.
"That means the president, if that interpretation is taken, can invade ... Syria tomorrow. Or invade Iran tomorrow, without any consultation with the United States Congress.
Posted by: Col Steve at January 13, 2006 10:40 AM (pj2h7)
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Hi GavinM,
Its OK I shower every day.
Posted by: strawman at January 13, 2006 02:03 PM (0ZdtC)
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Blu,
Only you could call the ACLU a fringe, far left organization. You are living in a paranoid dream. WHat is Move-On then? Soviet funded front?You are much idiot, comrade.
Posted by: Strawman at January 13, 2006 02:19 PM (0ZdtC)
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What would you call the ACLU? Mainstream? How many Dems will even publicly associate with the group? They are the John Birch society of the Left---except the Birchers are paranoid freaks that do no harm. The ACLU, alternatively, has and continues to do great harm to this country.
Move On is comprised of a bunch idiots....but useful idiots. If their policy views prevail in the Democrat party, I won't have to worry about a Democrat House or Senate anytime soon. They represent the views of about 10% of the country---but unfortunately for Dems a much larger % of their primary voters. So, I salute them. You go Move On!
The fact that you see groups like the ACLU and MoveOn as mainstream and not fringe says a lot about your and other Left-winger's delusions. You people actually think you represent America. Every time America gets a true look at who you people are, it rejects you. Why do you think Clinton ran as far as he could away from you people? He realized what MoveOn can't seem to understand. America has rejected liberalism. The places where a person can admit to being "liberal" and get elected to office can be counted on your fingers.
Well, whatever....if you are happy in your ignorance then so be it. More fun for me.
Posted by: Blu at January 13, 2006 03:29 PM (CnLYQ)
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Perhaps, now that the hearing is concluded, someone ought to note that they never laid a glove on him.
I mean, Alito bitch-slapped every one of the liberal Senators that tried to take a cheap shot at him, and in addition, even Arlen Specter bitch-slapped that bloat Senator from Chappaquiddick, the (Dis)Honorable Edward M. Kennedy, (D.).
Of all the people in the world to question Alito's character, especially dredging up events from 25 or more years ago, it is sheer irony that it should be a guy who's character is probably the worst in Congress, and that's saying a lot.
For a criminal whose transgressions have a body count to go the full nine yards on character with a just man like Alito just blows my mind. Which one of them was dismissed from Harvard for cheating? Take a guess.
Is it any wonder that the Democrats have become the permanent minority party in America?
Perhaps Kennedy should stop between his trips from coast to coast and take a look at the fly-over states. America rejects his brand of liberalism, and his performance this week just cost Democrats across the United States millions of votes in the coming elections.
Long Live Ted Kennedy; the best thing that ever happened to the Republican Party.
Posted by: shelly at January 14, 2006 03:03 AM (BJYNn)
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January 10, 2006
Iran's Nuclear Timeline
From
The Houston Chronicle, here's a history of Iran's nuclear mischief:
February-May 2003: International Atomic Energy Agency inspectors examine nuclear facilities in Iran, which the United States accuses of running a covert weapons program.
June 2003: IAEA chief Mohamed ElBaradei says Iran kept certain nuclear materials and activities secret.
November 2003: The U.N. nuclear watchdog agency says Iran acknowledged it produced weapons-grade uranium but there is no evidence a weapon was built.
December 2003: Iran formally signs the Additional Protocol to the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty to allow more intrusive inspections.
February 2004: Media reports say Pakistani nuclear scientist Abdul Qadeer Khan delivered atomic weapons technology to Iran.
March 2004: The IAEA praises Iran's cooperation but criticizes past efforts to mislead the U.N. and urges Tehran to disclose all information concerning its nuclear program by June.
September 2004: Then-Secretary of State Colin Powell says Iran's nuclear program is a growing threat and calls for international sanctions.
November 2004: Iran announces the suspension of uranium enrichment and related activities amid fragile negotiations with European nations.
August 2005: Iran rejects a European Union offer of incentives in exchange for guarantees it will not pursue nuclear weaponry. Tehran announces it has resumed uranium conversion at Isfahan, and the IAEA calls an emergency meeting to deal with the crisis.
Sept. 17, 2005: President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad tells U.N. Security Council it is Iran's "inalienable right" to produce nuclear fuel and rejects European offer of economic incentives to halt enrichment program.
Sept. 24, 2005: IAEA passes resolution calling Iran's nuclear program "illegal and illogical" and puts Tehran one step away from Security Council action on sanctions.
Nov. 11, 2005: Plans emerge for Russian offer to enrich uranium for Iran on Russian soil.
Nov. 24, 2005: The European Union accuses Iran of possessing documents used solely for the production of nuclear arms, warns of possible referral to Security Council.
Jan. 8, 2006: Iran removes U.N. seals from nuclear enrichment facility at Natanz, effectively ending a freeze on the process that can produce fuel for nuclear weapons.
Coming up, I see three more relevant and key dates.
First, the upcoming March date for Mohammed ElBaradei's report to the IAEA. The report should determine whether the U.N. Security Council will meet to impose sanctions, however impotent, against Iran.
Second, the March 28th special election in Israel, which will form the new government to replace Sharon's, and consequently determine Israel's response to the Iranian threat.
Third, the date Iran gets the bomb. Obviously, the third date is unknown, and therein lies the problem.
Update: On a theme that's more related to the title of my last post, Austrian Chancellor Wolfgang Schuessel said today that sanctions against Iran would be imposed only as "a last resort." Wait a minute, I thought "military action" was always the last resort. I guess the unspoken but logical assumption here is that a military solution is off the table for the Europeans. Again.
Nice. Thanks guys.
I'm not advocating a military solution, which has many problems as some of my commenters have pointed out. But diplomacy without teeth is always doomed to failure.
Posted by: annika at
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Your last sentence was spot on. The Europeans (and to some extent our State Dept) don't seem to understand that peace and strength are linked. It often appears to me that Euros assume that they are dealing with rational, Western-thinking people rather than a bunch of kooks. Still, this situation is much more complicated that some macho pissing contest. The West is in a bind and Iran knows it---as do the Russians and the Chinese.
I really appreciate being able to read the perspectives of folks like Col. Steve and others with military experience and some knowledge of the region. The MSM (as in many areas) does not do a very good job explaining how complicated this situation is.
Posted by: Blu at January 10, 2006 01:34 PM (CnLYQ)
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Maybe Schuessel means that sanctions are a last resort --
after a military solution. Could it be?!
Nah.
"I have asked you nicely not to mangle my merchandise! You leave me no alternative but to ask you nicely again!"
Posted by: Tuning Spork at January 10, 2006 06:01 PM (z1H29)
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Diplomacy w/o teeth is not even diplomacy. It is fantasy.
Iran presents a large set of complex strategic problems which are ever morphing, impossible to control, and difficult to manage.
I believe our long term strategy against Iran is to inject democracy and free will into the culture via the educated, disaffected, and ever-growing population of younger Iranians. OIF is a major strategic maneuver against
Iran, with Afghanistan also figuring in.
Iran has been expansionist for some time. Besides the Israel problem, and the fundamentalist Islam expansion problem, Iran surely had and has their eye on gaining control of Iraq's oil over the long term. Also, Iran aggressively emplaces military assets with an eye towards controlling and intimidating shipping in the Persian Gulf, and in the Gulf of Oman. Iran's naval assets harass and probe ships and American Naval assets in those seas, gaining intelligence in case of future, more serious actions. Further, off-the-record ex-U.S. Government voices whisper that Iran was aggressively reaching out to control a strategically located Somalia in 1992, prompting Bush 41's move of "humanitarian aid" into Mogadishu. According to these voices, when Clinton boogied out of Somalia, he didn't just back down from Muhammed Adid(sic) and Osama Bin Laden, he backed down from Iran.
OIF is a key move against Iran. Its logical that we can use Iraqi Shia to infiltrate and spy for us inside Iran. Its logical that we can arm and support a fantastic Iranian opposition from Iraq, using the pourous border to smuggle sympathetic Iranians in and out at will. I understand, with a layperson's understanding, that American military operations in Iran would face vast difficulties not yet encountered elsewhere. However, if we have even moderately capable intelligence and special forces to use in arming the Iranian opposition, the mullahs will have a big problem on their hands.
This doesn't address the critical short-term threat to Israel. However, OIF means the long term outlook is vastly better than it was three years ago. Thank freakin God the Dem children do not control the White House and the Congress.
Posted by: gcotharn at January 10, 2006 09:46 PM (Pzodr)
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Oh, and I must give props to the journalist who owns the Iraq story:
Faster, please.
Posted by: gcotharn at January 10, 2006 09:57 PM (Pzodr)
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agh! owns the IRAN story.
geez- that q is one tricky consonant - always seducing my left pinky into striking it.
Posted by: gcotharn at January 10, 2006 09:59 PM (Pzodr)
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right index gets a lot of action. left pinky wants some.
Posted by: gcotharn at January 10, 2006 10:01 PM (Pzodr)
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Ok, so I'm hooked on comments tonight.
I would wild guess that we would depose Baby Assad, and overthrow his Iranian backed government, as our next strategic step against Iran. We are boxing Iran in, and its not strategically sound to leave Baby Assad in our rear - especially since he is low-hanging fruit - and his government is well within our capabilities(I would hope) of taking down.
There's an instinctive feeling that we want to stay far away from all the troubles in the ME. That feeling is misleading. It is dangerous for us to be disengaged.
We are like a slugging pugilist who is fighting against a fast opponent. We don't want to let the opponent gain his balance and unload on us. We want to stay in close, pressing him, working inside his big haymaker. We'll take some punishment, but its the safest place to be.
Posted by: gcotharn at January 10, 2006 10:16 PM (Pzodr)
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"I'm not advocating a military solution, which has many problems as some of my commenters have pointed out."
Of course Iran having the bomb also has many problems.
Posted by: cube at January 11, 2006 07:06 AM (nyNr0)
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January 09, 2006
Don't Make Me Laugh
Here's
a good one:
Each of the permanent members of the U.N. Security Council has told Iran to drop plans for new nuclear activities or risk being hauled before the body for possible sanctions, the Bush administration said Monday.
Although the United States and European allies have been sending that message for weeks, China and Russia are now doing the same, State Department spokesman Sean McCormack said.
'We are working very closely with Russia, China and France and Britain on sending a clear message to the Iranians,' McCormack said.
[pause for laughter to die down]
This is exactly what the Iranians want us to do. They have no intention of negotiating away their nuclear ambition. Despite their double-talk, they've been very clear about that. I can't be the only one who gets this.
The Iranians have been very clear about another thing too:
Iran with the bomb = nuclear war.
Given that fact, nothing else in the news matters these days. Alito don't matter. Spielberg don't matter. DeLay don't matter. Kobe don't matter. Brokenback Mountain don't matter. Pink and Carey don't matter. O'Reilly and Letterman don't matter. Stern on Sirius don't matter. Pat Robertson's latest brain-fart don't matter. Schwarzenegger's fifteen stitches don't matter. etc. etc. etc.
Commentators all seem to be standing around, watching as this ship goes over the cliff. Or whatever. It's infuriating. I'd like to hear some intelligent discussion about what we should do about this big problem.
Update: More detail may be found at Arms Control Wonk.
Posted by: annika at
03:13 PM
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Post contains 252 words, total size 2 kb.
1
There have been massive demonstrations against the Iranian goverment during the past two summers by people under the age of 40. They are greatly encouraged by Bush's speeches over the last 3 years. Plus the nuclear war talk of the government has the people scared to death.
The Iranian government is at a tipping point. The US should help the rebel groups in Iran with money, weapons and material to overthrow the government.
Posted by: Jake at January 09, 2006 03:57 PM (r/5D/)
2
Who on this site thinkgs the Mossad does not know each and every site location and all specs?
Who thinks the Israeli's are going to sit on their hands while Iran arms itself?
Who thinks the Israelis will not be able to deliver the blows due to observance of airspace restrictions?
I rest my case. Sleep well.
Posted by: shelly at January 09, 2006 05:02 PM (6mUkl)
3
Data from U.S. Department of Labor's Mine Safety and Health Administration @ www.msha.gov
United States mining fatalities in the last four years of the Clinton administration and the first four years of Bush's administration.
year 2004 - 54 fatalities
2003 - 56
2002 - 67
2001 - 72
Bush's administration
2000 - 85
1999 - 90
1998 - 87
1997 - 91
Clinton's administration
Liberals are trying to blame the Bush administration for the deaths of the 12 coal miners in West Virginia because they say Pres. Bush relax safety regulations but look at the numbers. Despite the fact that coal production is up in the mining industry now over 4 years ago (result of the boom in the energy sector) less people are dying.
I guess less regulation equal less deaths in mines.
Posted by: Myron at January 09, 2006 08:16 PM (AZP0F)
4
Right wing spam c0mments? Now i
have seen everything.
Posted by: annika at January 09, 2006 08:53 PM (U/wLg)
5
I believe that Mossad/CIA have a handle on where everything is. I know that the Israeli's don't have a strategic capability to do anything about it, nor do we want them to. That would only give legitimacy to the arab nutballs. This situation is best handled by a subtle course of direct action.
Posted by: Casca at January 09, 2006 09:34 PM (2gORp)
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Casca:
I remember reading a year or so ago that the US had transferred its technology for those "bunker-busters" to Israel. Additionally, Israel does have the bomb. They have the delivery systems. I think you may be wrong about their cabability.
I agree that it is best to try to move them by diplomacy, but what do you do when that doesn't work? Let them arm? I doubt that Israel will do so.
A very wise man once told me that you can't deal logically with someone who is irrational.
If this guy isn't, who is?
Posted by: shelly at January 10, 2006 01:10 AM (6mUkl)
7
"Direct Action" is a euphemism in "the trade" for more, ahem, discrete methods of influencing private opinions of decision makers.
The Israeli's have a lot of technology, and I'm sure that they have "devices", but the ability to haul massive weight to a ten meter grid square in Iran is problematic. Heh, we're GOOD at this shit, and sometimes WE fuck up. Israeli military capability is over-rated. As an erudite general whom I know used to say, "We're the NFL. The Israelis are a good high school team, and the Arabs collectively are pop warner."
There are people who make things happen.
There are people who watch things happen.
There are people who wonder what happend.
There are people who don't know that anything happened at all. Our desired endgame is about a 10/90% split of the last two groups in re this subj.
Posted by: Casca at January 10, 2006 06:32 AM (y9m6I)
8
There are very few Arabs in Iran, nonetheless, point taken.
Shelly, the situation is not the same as in 1981 when Israel bombed Iraq. Israeli air forces would face a far longer and better defended route of attack than they did in the Osiraq strike. A manned aircraft strike would require massive refueling support and prior suppression of air defenses (reducing surprise potential), while the long-range missile strike capabilities of Israel submarines remain uncertain. These facts alone reduce the scope of an attack to a few targets in western Iran. Given the dispersion and complexities of the program elements, a preemptive strike against Iran could become a substantial operation with at best the outcome of delaying the program, not halting it.
Plus, intervention by Israel serves as one of the few unifying forces in the region. The rise of predominantly Shia Iran given the situation in Iraq shifts the power balance in the region. The majority of other states have Sunni regimes, though most also have marginalized Shia communities. The provocative statements by the Iranian president, especially about "wiping Israel off the map" scares those states caught in between Iran and Israel, offering another source of pressure.
It is laughable to assume Iran would give up the program, but it is not clear whether the intention is defensive-deterrent or offensive-coercive. I think leaders in Iran and North Korea are fairly rational from a national security perspective, but they do try to foster the "irrational" perspective externally. Sometimes they overplay their hand and we have to use those opportunities to play the game too with the UN and EU here. Just keep isolating and marginalizing them. Save "direct action" for those external folks who are covertly providing resources to the program.
Posted by: Col Steve at January 10, 2006 10:45 AM (pj2h7)
9
I take it you refer to our "friends" the French, Germans, and Russians.
Who needs enemies?
Posted by: shelly at January 10, 2006 01:49 PM (6mUkl)
10
The Iranians have been very clear about another thing too: Iran with the bomb = nuclear war.
How do you figure that? In their public statements they repeatedly say it's not about a bomb, the Supreme Leader made a fatwa against WMDs, etc. OK, you say that's all dissimulation, look at what they do, not what they say. But then how do you make the immediate leap to nuclear war? Indeed, what exactly does your equation mean - that once they have a bomb, they'll use it immediately? Evidence, please.
Posted by: mitchell porter at January 10, 2006 10:53 PM (mr6sB)
11
"There are very few Arabs in Iran, nonetheless, point taken."
Oh I don't know, old boy. I'm given to understand that the mountains are FULL of the rascals. Living in CAVES don't you know. Certainly the Persians would be the current pop warner champ. It's worth noting that we had no trouble at all with these buggers until that Lawrence fellow discovered their existance.
Posted by: Casca at January 11, 2006 06:54 AM (y9m6I)
12
That's a fair question Mitchell. I'll admit that I was making a leap based on the Iranian leadership's irrational rhetoric towards Israel. I don't think you can look at Iran's nuclear ambitions the same way you might look at North Korea's or Pakistan's or India's. The usual motivation for wanting the bomb is for it's effect as a deterrent. I think Iran wants it because they plan to use it. If I'm wrong, fine. But you got to admit that the risk of nuclear war when Iran gets the bomb will be much higher than ever before. I have heard that, among themselves, Iranian radicals say they would easily absorb an Israeli counter-strike if it meant they could destroy Israel with nuclear weapons.
Posted by: annika at January 11, 2006 08:51 AM (zAOEU)
13
I am sure that the Iranian strategic leadership recognize that the use of nuclear weapons in any way would be extremely dangerous for them. Their plan for victory would be more sophisticated than
1. Make a nuke
2. Use it
Their rhetoric is all about defeating Israel through intifada and political isolation. Even in the notorious
speech (made just after the fall of the Taliban) where Rafsanjani talked about the asymmetric consequences of a nuclear exchange between Israel and the Islamic world, he also talks about how "millions of Jews who have moved there will be homeless again" after Israel is defeated. Despite Ahmadinejad's hosannahs in praise of martyrdom, they must hope to win without it, at least on a national scale.
Posted by: mitchell porter at January 11, 2006 06:29 PM (mr6sB)
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You make good points Mitchell, but I'd hate to see Iran in a position to test your theory. Just because it would be foolish for the Iranian leaders to attack Israel doesn't mean they won't act foolishly. Or self destructively. It was foolish for the Arab states to attack Israel all those times in the 50's, 60's and 70's, too.
Iran has reason to think America's role as a gaurantor of Israeli security is currently weakened. They might think they'd become instant heroes if they destroyed Israel once and for all and that the U.S. couldn't or wouldn't retaliate. They already have reason to believe that the Europeans would do nothing, although I think even Europe would not stand by if Israel were nuked.
The point is that there is a perception in the world, especially by those who get their news from al jazeera, that the U.S. is isolated and weak, and that everybody else would cheer if Israel ceased to exist. And don't forget, Iran is run by clerics who preach martyrdom.
Posted by: annika at January 12, 2006 01:59 PM (zAOEU)
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Annika:
In 1967, the Isrealis launched the preemptive strike against Egypt after Egypt closed the Straits of Tiran. While perhaps foolish for them to act so provocatively, recall Egypt got back lost territory after the 1956 war.
In 1973, the desire to get back the territory (Sinai/Gaza for Egypt, Golan Heights for Syria, West Bank for Jordan) was a powerful incentive. The Egyptians had learned from the 1967 war and kept forces within their SAM coverage belt to neutralize the major advantage Israel had in previous wars from air dominance. Plus, the Egyptians and Syrians were probably confident the USSR would not let the situation spiral out of control if the Arab nations lost their gamble (which turned out to be true).
What's the motivation for Iran other than the possible destruction of Israel? The beneficaries of that event, assuming one could even contain the effects of nuclear weapons, are Sunni arabs. The leadership may preach martyrdom, but that doesn't apply to them. Martyrdom is for the people Iranian leaders use (support for terrorists in Iraq/Syria or even an entire group of people - Palestinians) to carry out their desires.
I'd worry more once Iran has nuclear weapons about a different scenario. Claiming the need to protect oppressed Shia in Southern Iraq and NE Saudi Arabia (where lots of the oil wells are), the Iranians launch limited armed attacks in the south and generally cause a mess in the Persian gulf. The attacks are enough to negotiate some gains without escalating the conflict but not enough for the Europeans to support intervention, especially if Iran has nukes.
Posted by: Col Steve at January 14, 2006 06:03 AM (pj2h7)
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January 04, 2006
Here's Where You Need Unions
From
L.A. Times:
The mine's federal health and safety violations had nearly doubled over the last year, rising from 68 citations in 2004 to 181 in 2005. Nearly half of the 2005 totals were deemed "significant and substantial," the government's term for serious mine safety problems. The deficiencies included problems with the firm's ventilation and roof support plans.
At least 46 federal violations had been cited since October. And records from the federal Mine Safety and Health Administration indicated that at least a dozen roof collapses occurred in the last six months.
In addition, Terry Farley, a West Virginia mine safety official, confirmed that the Sago Mine was also cited by state regulators for 208 violations in 2005, up from 74 the year before.
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1
How long before a prominent Democrat accuses Bush of being personally responsible? How long before the MSM, begins a "thoughtful" and "fair" look at the administration's connection to the mining industry. (The reporting on this was so bad that the MSM is going to have to shift the focus somehow.)
Posted by: Blu at January 04, 2006 10:02 AM (xWE3I)
2
To the title of this post, Annie, a hearty "amen, sister."
Posted by: Hugo at January 04, 2006 10:16 AM (Yu24L)
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Annika,
As to your post: WHY? Is there data that indicates that unionism leads to better safety generally or mining safety specifically? If so, where does the data come from?
Hugo,
Just read your post on the recent CT moview review. Very interesting regardless of perspective.
Blu
Posted by: Blu at January 04, 2006 10:39 AM (xWE3I)
4
I don't know about unions, but how many serious safety violations and roof collapses does it take before someone shuts the damn thing down? If a company has such a dramatic increase in citations in a single year, why would someone not put the safety of the workers first and not allow another person to set foot in the mine until all rules and regs were followed?
It sounds to me like another case of beaurocratic bark with no bite. The government can cite you over and over again, but until they can affect the companies bottom line, the company won't clean itself up.
Posted by: Frank at January 04, 2006 11:20 AM (D3+20)
5
Gotta agree with Blu and Frank, annie. I don't think there's a non-union mine in WV; if true, obviously a union couldn't, wouldn't, or didn't do shit about this. I can't blame the union or lack thereof for this.
OTOH, as Frank touches on, regulations with no enforcement or fines so low they amount to a licence fee, don't impact a company's bottom line. If it's cheaper to pay a fine and ignore safety regs, a company has no incentive to follow them. It isn't until something like this happens that they will stop thumbing their noses at the regulations.
Posted by: Victor at January 04, 2006 01:14 PM (L3qPK)
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You little cake-eater. Why do you think WV votes demoncrat? The United Mine Workers have owned that state politically for a looooooong time.
Posted by: Casca at January 04, 2006 01:57 PM (y9m6I)
7
Workman's comp insurance in Minnesota is required by law and is covered by private insurance companies. My experience has been that the insurance companies are much more strict about workplace conditions than OSHA. Their safety experts give you great advice. They do not want to pay out money in claims so they wouldn't insure you if they fill your workplace is unsafe.
In West Virginia, workman's comp insurance is covered by the state. The state has no incentive to find and correct unsafe working conditions. They just keep raising the rates because there is no competition.
Posted by: Jake at January 04, 2006 02:00 PM (r/5D/)
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Jake, that is the beauty of government enterprises: No competition, which means no innovation and ultimately no progress. It's actually capitalism 101 and shouldn't be too hard for anybody to figure out. Unless, of course, you are a bone-headed collectivist.
Posted by: Blu at January 04, 2006 02:13 PM (xWE3I)
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interesting comments. I'm just wondering, with such a noticeable increase in violations, the Union didn't go out on strike until things got fixed. I mean,
that's where you need unions, not because some overpaid grocery clerks might have to pay 1% more in co-pay.
Posted by: annika at January 04, 2006 02:15 PM (zAOEU)
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BLU its already happened, moonbats are blaming bush, its on my blog!
Posted by: kyle at January 04, 2006 02:17 PM (byh84)
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Annika, Sego had purchased the mine only a year ago and were supposedly trying to improve it. I think I would have had the most serious violations fixed BEFORE I purchased.
Posted by: kyle at January 04, 2006 02:19 PM (byh84)
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Casca, I have some intersting pictures of a big piece of crap yard in WV, complete with several cars on blocks and trash everywhere, and it has some great big Kerry/Edwards stickers, and "Union and Proud" posters all over it. - Priceless.
Posted by: kyle at January 04, 2006 02:22 PM (byh84)
13
I think the fact that grocery clerks want to unionize is the main thing holding me back from living in the sunshine state. Anyhow somebody should've been on top of this; I'm curious to see the reason why the regulations weren't enforced, especially with such a strong union presence. Perhaps the dems and the union leaders were a little too cozy in their power situation out there, but it would seem, from the Times article excerpt, that the executive branch bureaucracy bears some direct responsiblity. Its very sad for the families involved. Why do we still use coal anyway?
Posted by: perfect 2 cents at January 04, 2006 02:29 PM (RDouC)
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"Why do we still use coal anyway?" Coal generates about half of all US electricity, and usage will probably increase since natural gas, which has been the preferred fuel for new plants, is getting scarcer and more expensive. In principle, nuclear could be used for most electrical production, along with hydropower, wind, and solar. But even then, coal will be needed: it can be converted to both oil for transporation fuel and to natural gas for home heating and other uses.
Posted by: David Foster at January 04, 2006 02:45 PM (7TmYw)
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I know, I've driven down I-77 many a time, and that's the good part of the state.
Anni, the unions the world over are in bed with mgt. First order of business for a union thug is to fuck the members, and get his brother in the legislature.
Posted by: Casca at January 04, 2006 02:49 PM (2gORp)
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JAke,
For the record, the insurance in question is WOrkers Compensation (Workmans comp was dropped as sexist about ten years ago. I guess that's when some women began to enter the work place.) I have workers comp insurance and it is carried by the State Insurance Fund of NY. I have had this policy without interuption for 3o years and they have inspected my business every year, made some good suggestions, insisted on some changes and sent me numerious pamphlets and posters about safty issues. Oh, did I mention that they have the lowest rates in NYS? Gee, I guess they never took eco 101.
I also had an OSHA inspection of my facility during the Carter admin. The inspector was fair and the fines though manageable were reduced during negotiations. (BTW I have not had an inspection since) After Carter, Raygun, gutted OSHA's budget for inspectors but did not change the safty standars companies were obliged to follow. He also saw to it that the penalities were reduced as well. This method has become the standard for Republican admistrations in many areas of federal oversight. They pound the table insisting that they are committed to protecting the working stiff but fail to mention that they have made it impossible for the fed protect anybody except the corporations through neglect. They leave in place all the regulations but they gut the staffing budget. The result is that corporations can act with impunity since the chance of getting caught is nearly nil and the fines quite pleasant compared to compliance. I guess they did go to eco 101.
Speaking of coal. The one praise I have for the Bush Administration, yes I do, is that they have been slowly but steadly pushing for the resumption of nuclear power. Currently applications for one or two plants are being considered. NP must be resumed. Coal is responsible for shorting the lives of 24000 americans each year due to the particulant pollution as well as 130 million tons of solid by-product.
I know none of you would be caught dead reading the New Yorker, but a few weeks ago there was a long winded and fascinating article about the extraction of coal from open pit mines in Wyoming and it's delivery by train to the largest power plant in the nation outside Macon GA. This plant burns one 135 car train load, 13,000 tons, each 8 hour shift. IF the reserve yard at this plant, 2 million tons, were to be replaced by uranium, it would require a 15 ton flatbed truck to carry it. Fission is the answer for the long haul and I am pleased America is waking up to this. For this alone I might not drag W by the throat off to the Hague to stand trial for his crimes against humanity. I would hire Casca to do it.
Annika, Sego is a non union mine so the onus for regulating is squarley on management and the feds not any union. Or maybe that is what your post was saying. It was a bit vague as you can tell by those above who immediatly assumed you were taking an anti-union stance.
Posted by: Strawman at January 04, 2006 05:15 PM (0ZdtC)
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I don't see how anyone could think that Annika was taking an anti-union stance. I believe the post's title is
"Here's Where You Need Unions"?
If Sego was not unionised then the minors likely had no farkin' idea about the number of safety violations because no one who knew was interested in telling them.
I predict that within 72 hours we'll get the
"I take responsibity for the problem... and for the solution" speech from President Bush. OSHA will have some new teeth by this time next year.
Posted by: Tuning Spork at January 04, 2006 06:40 PM (s8uss)
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annika you said union
now i heart you
Posted by: tony at January 04, 2006 09:42 PM (MsDag)
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Many good comments on both sides. Note that Bush is pushing for much more coal fired power generation, instead of conservation and renewable energy sources.
I'll also note that I power and heat my house primarily with solar power, doing my part to help to reduce all of the downsides of coal burning (i.e., climate change, many types of pollution, destruction of mountaintopss and habit, poisoning of streams, mining disasters, etc).
I even made a solar cooker with my daughter as a school project. Yes, clouds do happen, but then I heat my house with a renewable, carbon-neutral source; wood.
Posted by: will at January 05, 2006 05:02 AM (z62e3)
20
Not exactly addressing the issue of unions with this comment, but rather addressing the safety issue, specifically the violations found:
Reuter's article link "West Virginia miners drawn by money and solidarity"
(It's a Tinyurl link because the submit function kept on rejecting the Reuter's URL)
Quote: ""Many of those violations were written during an inspection asked for by International Coal Group after they bought the mine so they could correct any problems," Hamilton said."
"Hamilton" being Chris Hamilton of the West Virginia Coal Association, a group representing coal producers.
Interesting comment. If I'm reading things right, the old mine owners were probably the negligent ones, and the new owners may have been trying to fix things. Of course, the timeframe is unknown, so the current owners may have been negligent, too if it turns out that they had the time to do something about the problems and didn't... Eh... there are a lot of unknowns here.
Posted by: elmondohummus at January 05, 2006 04:14 PM (2z4/C)
21
Anyone who understands basic econ should understand that unions are a great example of wasted resources and socialistic wealth transfer.
For all the money they vacuum from the pockets of members, the LEAST unions should is make sure their employees are safe.
Posted by: Mark at January 06, 2006 03:54 PM (4MrJu)
22
So even though the people who were putting their lives on the line every day, and are the real professionals here, (I'm talking about the miners in case you aren't getting that.) are going to bat for the mine saying they thought it was very safe then, and now, doesn't really cout much in the face of VIOLAtions, huh?
Posted by: Patrick at January 08, 2006 09:50 PM (OZWye)
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December 23, 2005
i Give Up
Now there's a problem with
warrantless radiation monitoring? How could anybody possibly object to that?
i give up. i really give up.
Why don't we just propose a new law next year to quiet all the critics? The Unconditional Surrender Act of 2006. It might look like this:
<sarcasm>
AN ACT
To restore the United States of America to the safety of its pre September 11, 2001 status. Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled,
TITLE I
Section 101 FINDINGS
Congress makes the following findings:
(a) Life in the United States of America was easier when we didn't realize that there were people out there trying to kill us.
(b) Protecting the citizens of the United States from future terrorist attacks necessarily requires that difficult choices be made.
(c) Certain interest groups, including the news media, are very quick to criticize any every action taken by a Republican president, no matter how sensible such action may be.
(d) The elected members of the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America lack the collective guts to do the right thing in the face of media criticism or opposition by various nut-jobs such as Michael Moore or Cindy Sheehan and their ilk.
(e) By returning to a strategy of doing nothing and ignoring its enemies, Congress can invite a future attack on the territory and citizens of the United States of America.
(f) Such a future attack can be blamed on the President of the United States of America, thus allowing the Senate and House of Representatives to escape blame and responsibility therefor, and making it more likely that a change of political party control will occur in the executive and legislative branches of the government of the United States.
Section 102 SENSE OF CONGRESS
It is the sense of Congress that:
(a) People who have nothing to hide, generally do not complain about surveillance as much as those who do.
(b) People who oppose the use of the United States military are generally louder than those who support the United States military.
(c) Critics in the media, academia, and the entertainment industry will be satisfied only when the government of the United States gets out of the way of the people who want to kill us.
TITLE II
Section 201 USE OF THE UNITED STATES MILITARY
(a) Effective immediately, all operations by all personnel of the United States Department of Defense shall cease.
(b) All personnel and equipment under the authority and control of the United States Department of Defense, and located outside of the territory of the United States of America, shall be returned to locations within the United States of America as soon as practicable, and in no event later than thirty days from the date of enactment of this law.
(c) Hereafter, the use of any personnel, equipment or assets under the authority and control of the United States Department of Defense shall be limited to either of the following:
(1) The distribution of food, medicine and currency to the heads of state, or their representatives, of the following countries only: Albania, Algeria, Azerbaijan, Bahrain, Bangladesh, Burkina Faso, Brunei, Chad, Comoros, Côte d'Ivoire, Djibouti, Ethiopia, Eritrea, Egypt, Gambia, Guinea, Indonesia, Iran, Jordan, Kuwait, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Lebanon, Libya, Maldives, Malaysia, Mali, Mauritania, Morocco, Niger, Nigeria, Oman, Pakistan, the Palestinian Authority, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Senegal, Sierra Leone, Somalia, Sudan, Syria, Tajikistan, Turkey, Tunisia, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, United Arab Emirates, Yemen. For purposes of this subsection, the phrase "heads of state or their representatives" shall include warlords and/or members of the executive branch of the United Nations General Assembly.
(2) The evacuation of American citizens under violent attack or after release from hostage captivity in the above listed countries.
Section 202 FOREIGN POLICY OF THE UNITED STATES
(a) Effective immediately, all diplomatic relations between the United States of America and the state of Israel shall be severed and all diplomatic officers withdrawn and returned to their respective states.
(b) The 1949 Recognition of the State of Israel by the United States, is hereby rescinded, revoked and withdrawn.
Section 203 HOMELAND SECURITY
Effective immediately,
(a) The United States Department of Customs and Border Protection shall be renamed the United States Department of Welcome and Transit.
(b) Every person located within the United States of America, or within any of its territories or possessions, either now or at any time in the future, who is not already a citizen of the United States, shall be deemed a citizen of the United States with all the rights pertaining thereto. Citizenship conferred to any person under this section shall:
(1) automatically extend to all members of said person's family, whether located within or outside the territory of the United States, and
(2) shall remain irrevocable in perpetuity, regardless of any criminal acts, including treason.
(c) No person travelling on a commercial airliner within the United States of America shall be searched or in any way impeded or delayed from entry into any airport terminal or airplane, unless he or she:(1) is over the age of 70 years, or under the age of 10 years, and
(2) cannot claim ancestry from any of the countries listed in Title II of this Act, Section 201, subsection (c)(1), and
(3) is not carrying any weapon, explosive device or apparatus for remote detonation of an explosive device.
(d) No interception of any electronic communications by anyone shall ever be conducted upon anyone, ever, for any reason whatsoever.
(e) No person shall ever be arrested, investigated, kept under surveillance, watched or glanced at in a sideways manner if that person:
(1) is an immigrant from, can claim ancestry from, or ever spent time in a terrorist training camp in any of the countries listed in Title II of this Act, Section 201, subsection (c)(1),
(2) advocates or encourages any act of terrorism against citizens of the United States, or contributes money to any terrorist organization or enemy of the United States.
Section 204 TREATMENT AND INTERROGATION OF PRISONERS
(a) No person shall ever be taken prisoner by any member of the United States Military, or any agent of a United States intelligence service, or any officer of any law enforcement agency operating within the United States if such person has committed, planned or conspired to commit a terrorist act, or in any way taken up arms against the military forces of the United States or those of any ally of the United States.
(b) All persons currently in custody for the above listed acts shall be immediately and permanently released, without interrogation, and after a full meal.
(c) All persons so released shall be provided legal counsel, at government expense, for the purpose of pursuing civil recovery for torts committed upon them while in government custody.
</sarcasm>
i'm still trying to think of an acronymic title for this bill.
Posted by: annika at
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Post contains 1153 words, total size 7 kb.
1
Two words: Fucking brilliant
Posted by: Blu at December 23, 2005 08:01 PM (hQHZ1)
2
A name for the bill?
How about: "America Last"? or, "The Contract Against America"? Or, "In God We Distrust"?
Posted by: shelly at December 24, 2005 02:17 AM (6mUkl)
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I hope you don't mind that I have forwarded this "bill" to every congress critter(I'm in Missouri, we talk like that!) I could think of!
Posted by: TBinSTL at December 24, 2005 02:52 AM (bYmT0)
4
If the Democrats ever get in, they will hire you to negotiate the surrender.
Posted by: Jake at December 24, 2005 06:47 AM (r/5D/)
5
i got one. How about the USA C.O.W.A.R.D. Act?:
Control of Warlike and Republican Disfunctions
Posted by: annika at December 24, 2005 07:17 AM (TEscA)
6
Awesome, I'm linking it in my blog...
Posted by: Rob at December 24, 2005 08:52 AM (QFO16)
7
Annika, you fascist. I completely object to your proposal to provide Department of Defense personnel for the following activity:
"The evacuation of American citizens under violent attack or after release from hostage captivity in the above listed countries."
We absolutely, positively should NOT send violent military personnel into foreign countries under such pretenses.
You're making the unwarranted assumption that the American citizens in the foreign country were peaceful people. Don't you realize that Americans in foreign countries are often threatening fascists, imposing Christianity and other Zionist movements on foreign nations? And you want to glamorize them by resucing these so-called "poor innocent" people?
The governments of these countries are fully prepared to deal with problems within their own countries, and don't need Big Brother running in on some false pretense. And if the foreign government can't protect the American citizens, then...they were probably doing something bad anyway.
With this one modification, I am fully prepared to support your bill, and hope it can be enacted soon after Kwanzaa.
All praise to Doctor Oba Saint Stanley Tookie Williams,
Ontario Emperor
Posted by: Ontario Emperor at December 24, 2005 09:38 AM (8Y5iE)
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Annie, that's absolutely inspired! It's great to see you making the most of your brief respite from school!
Posted by: Matt at December 24, 2005 12:21 PM (mn52f)
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How do I get on the list to get one of them there monitors in my neighborhood?
Posted by: Casca at December 24, 2005 12:43 PM (2gORp)
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Casca, that's easy enough.
Get a nuke from someone and store it in your back yard.
Posted by: shelly at December 24, 2005 08:23 PM (6mUkl)
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That was excellent!
Posted by: Mark at December 25, 2005 11:03 PM (t4mqS)
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Maybe you should give up. Nobody in their right mind is particularly concerned about the radiation monitoring. It was most likely dropped by the administration as a distraction.
In your previous post you falsely implied that officers could not conduct electronic tapping without an immediate warrant. This is fasle, they had seevnty hours to get a warrant. They worked under roughly the same system as the DEA and the question is why police agencies were effective in doing this but intelligence agencies unable?
Some reasoning has come out in recent speculations. It may be that the intelligence agencies were sampling huge numbers of messages looking for key words and patterns. These may have included many that were purely domestic.
Obviously judges would be hesitant to warrant such searches. This would be a plausible explanation of why the administration claimed that the article was a violation of security. From a terrorist point of view the knowledge that agencies were listening in as soon as they had a lead with a 99.9% warrant approval rate within 72 hours is little different than knowing they didn't bother to get warrants, but if the terrorists believed we obeyed our own laws and did not engage in this mass sampling and data mining domestically though it was fairly well known we do it internationally then we might find a few things they didn't guard against.
It is my suspicion that the terrorists are conspiracy buffs and do not believe we are much constrained by law. But I don't know.
Personally I think the Bill of Rights is an important element of society, one which distinguishes us from other societies. Therefore I agree with the individuals who wish to study this more closely.
You seem to despise this opinion, I suggest you go to a society where your idea of law and order is practiced. There are many of them.
Posted by: jen at December 26, 2005 03:55 AM (x/a7f)
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You have built a strawman the size of Burning Man. I would suggest that you could address each of the issues in a rational manner, as sarcasm only works on those who already feel the same way you do. The "if you're not with me, you're against me" approach means all or nothing, which is not the way a democracy tends to work, even if the optimum answer is not perfectly achieved.
Totalitarians crave more intelligence and power over individuals and organizations; libertarians strive to achieve greater freedoms, often to the other extreme. Each step towards a 1984 mindset is a step backward from democracy.
However, a solution is needed. One way to reduce the turnaround in court-approved wiretaps would be to set aside a 24/7 judicial capability to provide instant review, tied into a collaboration system.
Posted by: will at December 26, 2005 06:17 AM (h7Ciu)
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Since there are several active reactors within walking distance of my hooch, I'm certain that my neighborhood IS heavily monitored.
Posted by: Casca at December 26, 2005 07:49 AM (2gORp)
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Jen,
With all due respect, you have not a single clue about this topic. I'd suggest having a look at Powerline for a primer.
In addition, perhaps you could provide just a single example of the type of country that engages in (Annika's) type of "law and order." Do you think these, yet as unnamed countries, review their programs every 45 days and confer with the legislative branch? Do you think that they put a self-imposed limited on their monitoring? And if any these country were trying to keep a program secret and it was leaked to the press, what would happen to the "leakers" and to the media people involved in publishing the report about the secret program?
Posted by: Blu at December 26, 2005 09:32 AM (hQHZ1)
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im hopelessly confused by jen's comment, and i re-read it a few times before giving up. Here's an idea for next time: Topic Sentences! Try mixing them into each paragraph. It makes things so much easier for the reader.
As for will, it never ceases to amaze me how humorless the left is. "sarcasm only works on those who already feel the same way you do" Yeah, annnnd??? Your point is???
Posted by: annika at December 26, 2005 11:43 AM (cTN3y)
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Priceless. I don't jump into political topics too much, I usually let my buddy Rob do the talking. Jen, try spell check. It works wonders on those who have the brain capacity of a 5 year old.
Posted by: Eric at February 23, 2006 09:28 AM (PZk13)
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December 22, 2005
The M-Word
Mark Steyn:These days, whenever something goofy turns up on the news, chances are it involves some fellow called Mohammed. A plane flies into the World Trade Center? Mohammed Atta. A gunman shoots up the El Al counter at Los Angeles airport? Hesham Mohamed Hedayet. A sniper starts killing gas-station customers around Washington, DC? John Allen Muhammed. A guy fatally stabs a Dutch movie director? Mohammed Bouyeri. A terrorist slaughters dozens in Bali? Noordin Mohamed. A British subject from Hounslow, West London, self-detonates in a Tel Aviv bar? Asif Mohammed Hanif. A gang rapist preys on the women of Sydney? Mohammed Skaf.
Maybe all these Mohammeds are victims of Australian white racists and American white racists and Dutch white racists and Israeli white racists and Balinese white racists and Beslan schoolgirl white racists. But the eagerness of the Aussie and British and Canadian and European media, week in, week out, to attribute each outbreak of an apparently universal phenomenon to strictly local factors is starting to look pathological. "Violence and racism are bad," but so is self-delusion.
Via Shelly.
For more background on Sydney's problem, see The Rise Of Middle Eastern Crime In Australia.
Via A Western Heart.
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Abdel Rahman al-Rashed, a Saudi journalist in London said this:
“It is a certain fact that not all Muslims are terrorists,” he writes, “but it is equally certain, and exceptionally painful, that almost all terrorists are Muslims. ... We cannot clear our names unless we own up to the shameful fact that terrorism has become an Islamic enterprise; an almost exclusive monopoly, implemented by Muslim men and women.”
Posted by: Jake at December 22, 2005 11:07 AM (r/5D/)
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It's almost comical listening to the Left make excuses for the world's Mohameds--no matter how obvious the culpability while simultaneously being willing to blame GWB and Right for everything from hurricanes to the cost of gas.
Posted by: Blu at December 22, 2005 11:25 AM (hQHZ1)
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Blu:
After almost 50 years of holding the reins of America, the Democratic Party has become the dissident minority. The transformation of the former Blue Dog Democrats of the South to Republicans has changed the fate of the party dramatically.
Literally overnight, The Contract with America and Newt Gingrich changed the course of America. Those who once held ALL the gavels now hold NONE.
Can you blame them for being frustrated? Their ideas, or lack of them, have brought them low, and they refuse to believe that is is they who have caused their own demise, thus, it is necessary to blame someone else.
The only place they can turn is to George W. Bush.
They are desperate; if they lose the elections in 2006 and 2008, they will indeed become the PERMANENT minority.
It is frightening to them, and they assume the stance of desperate losers. But the real losers are the people of America who are harmed by their obstructionism and foul tactics.
Posted by: shelly at December 22, 2005 01:06 PM (6mUkl)
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While not every Italian is a member of the Mafia it is a certainty that every member of the Mafia is an Italian. Wanna bomb Sicily?
You folks are simpletons of the most dangerous type: those that believe their own bullshit and are willing to burn the sacred texts of their culture to kindle the bonfires to incinerate their enemies. What's left when the fire is out?
The extent that we protect the sanctity of our liberties in times of stress is inversely proportional to our understanding and committment to the ideas that make our liberty possible.
Yours is the kind of thinking that has led time and again to the rise to power of the fellows that promise order and timely trains.
Shelly, still wish Judge Luttig was on the short list? The egrigious crimes of this administration will not even be suffered by those professing allegience. Or how about the "breathaking inanity" of GWB's beliefe that ID be taught in schools as just another theory?
He is rapidly becoming the Chuck Wepner of politics.
Your wagon is tied to a team of madmen dashing towad the rim of the canyon and you don't have the sense to even look for the keys to you handcuffs.
Good riddence to bad garbage.
Posted by: Strawman at December 22, 2005 01:12 PM (0ZdtC)
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The distinction, though, Strawman is that nobody would argue with your clever little statement about Italians and the mafia. It is self-evident and only a fool would argue differently. In the case of Muslims and terroism, there are many, many fools despite the self evident fact of Abdel Rahman al-Rashed's statement. And as far as I know, the Italians never flew any planes into our buildings---(didn't you know it was those evil Jews who did that?)---nor have they committed themselves to wiping out Western Civilization. So, I feel confident that there is no need to bomb Siciliy. However, if any new intelligence shows up that directly links the Italians to 9-11 then I'm certain that we will have Sicily in our cross-hairs.
God, you're an idiot.
Posted by: Blu at December 22, 2005 02:45 PM (hQHZ1)
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Strawman:
"Yours is the kind of thinking that has led time and again to the rise to power of the fellows that promise order and timely trains."
No, your thinking consisting of ignoring threats or refuse to face reality that has caused the wars and millions of deaths.
Europe and FDR ignored the threat of Germany's growing military in the 1930s. They refused to disarm Germany and even refused to arm to act as a deterrent to Germany and Japan. Thus Germany and Japan felt they could easily conquer the world. This failure of a Democrat who thinks exactly as you do resulted in WWII that caused 60 million deaths.
When Clinton took office, Al Qaida was a gleam in Bin Laden's eye. He had initial successes against the US because of Clinton's cowardice and refusal to face reality. 6 attacks later with Clinton still ignoring the threat resulting in Al Qaida becoming a world-wide, well-funded organization.
Because Clinton thought just as you do, Al Qaida has killed thousands and thousands of innocent people around the world.
Democrats are only good at causing millions of people to die.
Posted by: Jake at December 22, 2005 04:37 PM (r/5D/)
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Straw:
Your gratuitous swipe at me drew no blood whatsoever. I never supported Luttig; I was always for Janice Rogers Brown (still am) and for several others not nominated, The Ediths, Collins, and of course Sam Alito.
This war will not be decided in the courts. All the courts can do is delay and obfuscate the real issues. This war is being fought in the trenches, and we are so fortunate to have real men and women in those trenches, taking out the assholes one at a time. Were it only that you were in one of the trenches getting their skills applied to you on an up close and personal basis.
The ACLU files suits and our boys and girls, the real ones, face the faceless enemy every day, every week, every month, 24/7.
People like you are so concerned with their loss of power since the Southern Democrats finally admitted they were Republicans, that they cannot fathom losing the control of America. You root for us to lose, and rejoice when we have a setback.
Take a good look at yourself, Mac. Do you really want America to win, or do you just want Bush to lose?
I thought so.
In the immortal words of Bart Simpson, "Suck my shorts".
Posted by: shelly at December 22, 2005 08:46 PM (6mUkl)
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Strawman's mental masturbation about civil liberties tends to neglect the fact that civil liberties are meaningless when you are (ahem) dead.
Good post, Annika. More please.
Posted by: Mark at December 23, 2005 12:46 AM (q4t6j)
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Stawdog Must hate that goose stepping monster FDR who suspened civil liberties in WW2 or that Horrible Nazi scumbag Lincoln who did so during the civil war.
Oh, BTW, ID is indeed simply a theory just as easy to prove as it is to disprove, so what pray tell would be so bad about teaching children that there exists such a theory which some people ascribe to?
Only a radical extremist would call it a Breathtaking Inanity.
Posted by: Kyle N at December 23, 2005 03:38 AM (bEnmE)
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Kyle,
Just too dumb for words. Please give me the easy proof for ID?
In six weeks of trial not one of the blowhard ID supporters could answer a single question concerning their attempts to prove ID. Not one experiment was attemted which could have an outcome that would support the "theory". It is not, you dolt, a theory. A theory has a hypothesis that can be put to a test, tested again and again. If the results match with statistical significance then we have some information about how the natural world works. We can then teach that description of the natural world since it will help those seeking the truth get closer tot their goal. Not truth, just a better undestanding of the natural world.
Tell me where ID fits into this picture and rises above "breathless inanity"? And how GWB also rises above this descriprion.
Shelly,
You give me little room to sit when you tell me my options are only Bush loosing and America winning but that is like you give me my options and tell me I'm wrong . Your total vision of this struggle with the radical and hateful elememts of Moslem world, is simplistic and viewed through the yellow tinted lenses of DIck the dick President Chainy's glasses.
I have never denied the struggle and the threat, although I don't preceive it as less pervasive. Yes 911 was a viscous thing, as has been all the bombings around the world over the last decade. Absolutly heinous acts of cowardliness. It is so easy for the RW to impune liberals as those who want AMerica to loose, or aren't supporting our troops, or doing things to give the enemy comfort but alas, it is not true, it is just the shrill debating posture of the side whoses only tool is a hammer and has a view of all problems as nails.
You see SHelly, we disagree over tactics and stratagy and the definition of the enemy not whether or not there is an enemy. We disagree over the powers of the presidency and the value of what America can loose pursuing this enemy. We disagree over the motives of the men who are running this country and their honesty.
You think raising a democracy is worth the new foreigh policy paradigm of "regime change" becoming acceptable. I don't. Was Saddam a bad man, sure. But talk like that is childish. Is killing 30,000 Iraqi's good? Is creating the playing field for a decades long internicine religious struggle in Iraq a good thing? Will a reasonable democratic government eventually be in controll of this country and the right of all the people and women protected? I doubt it. Will the establishment of this government lower the possibility of committed Islamic jihadists attacking America? Of course not. So whats the point?
You think that whether Iraq and Saddam had anything to do with 911 and AL Quiada it was imperative that we retaliate and that Iraq was a good place to do it. I don't. I think it resulted in the deaths of far too many Americans and Iraqi's and was not an oppropriate place to confront the soldiers of Al Quiada, Yes, many Jihadists have joined the fray but SHelly, there are a billion followers of Islam on this planet, we cannot hope to eradicate those willing to become mujahadeem(sp). What we can do is create more or fewer of them by our policies. COnquering Iraq, IMHO, did more harm than good in this regard. True, those who come to Iraq to fight may be killed, and that's not a bad thing, but I think millions more are radicalized and will fight some day some where else. All in all a net gain for their side.
I have a short day today and cannot get into all things we see differently but rest easy fella, I don't wish harm to come to this country or our troops.
Have a nice holiday.
Posted by: Strawman at December 23, 2005 08:00 AM (0ZdtC)
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Sure you do. You're just too intellectually dishonest to publicly admit your treason. After the first revolution we ran most of you people out of this country. That's why Canada is so confused.
Posted by: Casca at December 23, 2005 09:05 AM (y9m6I)
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Sorry this doesn't have anything to do with the post, but...Merry Christmas Annika!

Hope you and yours have a wonderful one!!
Posted by: Amy Bo Bamy at December 23, 2005 10:17 AM (Wz2Gp)
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cASCA,
why do you bother to put digit to key. (thankfully for you it doesn't take an opposable thumb to type) You are smug, angry and ignorant (I also wouldn't be surprised to discover you have stature issues) and with each key stroke you offer a new iteration. You are an arm-chair warrior who has sent no one packing except other peoples' sons and daughters with ill conceived policy, bad intelligence, and a cowards heart but hey, so has George Bush, our "breathlessly inane" commander. Remember Casca, the man to distrust is the one attempting to convince you of his honesty. The same is true of warriors.
Posted by: Strawman at December 23, 2005 10:23 AM (0ZdtC)
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Strawman,
You wrote the following: "A theory has a hypothesis that can be put to a test, tested again and again." In other words, others can take the proposed hypothesis and in testing it can come up with the same (i.e. repeatlable) results.
Please send me a link showing where the hypothesis of evolution has been repeatedly tested time and again in a controlled setting thus proving the theory. I suspect that I'll be waiting...and waiting....and waiting.
I'm not here to say evolution is absolutely not true, but those who believe it as 100% truth would be better served by showing some scientific humility. There are far too many gaps in the theory. While you may not believe in ID, the main intellectual force behind the movement, Phillip Johnson, pokes all sorts of holes in evolutionary theory as do a number of other competent intellectuals.
Posted by: Blu at December 23, 2005 11:43 AM (hQHZ1)
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Strawman:
Do you feel that adding a pejorative name to every person with whom you disagree adds anything to the argument?
You don't know a damn thing about any of us, but I know that Casca is a man who has been in harm's way and who has a son who is headed that way. What the Hell have you done that gives you some moral superiority over those of us who have been doing positive things our entire lives?
I for one, am getting tired of your treasonous tripe and this is the last I shall bother responding to your inanity. Why don't you join someother blog where the people think the same as do you, and you can find some reinforcement for your feelings? No one around here really agrees with anything you say, nor do we believe that you have any intellectual honesty whatsoever.
I earnestly impore others who share my thoughts to join me.
To quote one of my heros, Darryl F. Zanuck, "Include me out".
Posted by: shelly at December 23, 2005 11:58 AM (6mUkl)
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Blu,
It is a fools gambit to suggest that scientists think there are no holes in such a complex theory and that it is 100% complete. That there are no holes in a theory as far reaching and complex as "evolution", is not surprising. It has many facets and covers an entire spectrum of natural science. To poke holes is not hard. ALL evolutionary biologists believe the fossil record and genetic data is incomplete and the effects and influence of various forces are hotly debated. No competent scientist ever says something as dull witted as "100% explanation". Only folks like you who start an aguments by putting words in someones mouth. It is quite another thing after poking a hole to come up with a cogent alternative. ID is not it. As a non scientist judge put it, the arguments for ID were "breathlessly inane" and patently motivated by relious belief. He said that because competent intellectuals as you call them could put NOTHING on the table that made a bit of sense as an alternative. Evlolution is universally accepted as the best explanation availabe and it has the automotive equivalent of a door misfitting by 2 mm on a Benz 600SL as "holes" in it.
If Newton could have recorded the changes to the rate time pieces record at differing velocieties he would have had seen a falacy in his theory of gravity. He would review his data, review his experiments, rethink his premises, devise new experiments, collect new data and on and on.
But, if after all that he settled on the HOG conclusion, he would have been the first to tell you there is no test for god's hand and you are going to believe it on faith or not at all. Blu, the HOG theory may be what you need to sleep at night but don't go calling it science or insisting it be taught to my kids. I am, as are my kids, able to sleep as they wait for the holes to be filled or a new theory devised to explain them. You on the other hand seem to have the intelectual acuity of the Mayan farmer who worshiped the priest who could predict the seasons and told him when to plant his crops. Cave dwellers couldn't explain fire either. If it pleases you that god is the answer to the difficult questions of our existance so be it, just keep it to yourself. Please don't involve my school system with the promulgation of your primative desire for answers to everything instantly. I saw a good tee shit the other day. it said "Fine, I evolved, you didn't"
Posted by: strawman at December 23, 2005 12:49 PM (0ZdtC)
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Who said I believed in ID? I didn't. Nor did I suggest that it ought to be taught in science class. (Perhaps, you had me confused with another person.) I just asked for some perspective from those on the other side. By the way, have you even read any of the arguments presented by ID? If you have, then good for you. But, I doubt it. To describe these people as inane is just plain silly. I'd love to you debate Phillip Johnson and demonstrate just how "inane" he is. Unfortunately for you, name-calling doesn't win many points in a debate. Interestingly, despite the arrogance of the evolutionsists, there are very few who are willing to debate Johnson. Reason: he makes them look silly on stage. Now, don't misundertand me, winning a debate doesn't make a person right. (See Kerry v. Bush) It is ironic, though, that the evolutionsists are afraid to stand toe-to-toe with him.
Have you ever noticed that you have a tendency of over-reaching when you debate? And if you feel really threatned you like to bust out the ad hominem fallacy. Please, Strawman, engage in reasoned debate. Writing that I have the "intelectual acuity of the Mayan farmer" is not exactly the sort of argument that's going to persuade anybody. (Although, I am impressed with your willingness to denigrate a "conquered" people.)
Bit of trivia for ya Strawdude, I have two graduate degrees, which I suspect is two more than you have. So, your bitter and presumptuous rants about my intellect amuse me. I've spent years in and around higher education. So, I've come across my share of know-nothing blow-hards, who can do little more than parrot the words and ideas of other, better minds. Generally, these types undermine themselves.
So, keep it up Strawdude.
Posted by: Blu at December 23, 2005 01:29 PM (hQHZ1)
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Shelly,
The name calling and death wishes always start with Casca. When people tell me my kind should be dispensed with I get a bit testy. I am sorry I get baited into replying in kind. I do not claim moral superiority but rather I claim that I will kill others with great difficulity and rue the day I must. Men like Casca and yourself seem to me to be far too complacent with the entire process of killing and far too assured that their government knows best. Putting ones self in harms way in the cause of destroying the freedom of others or subverting the will of another nation, or enacting the deceits of our current administration is not going to get me to salute. It does get my sympathies. Whatever Casca did or whatever his son will do they did of their own free will with their eyes if not their brains open. Nobody twisted their arm and no Iraqi seriously threatened America. This was a soverign nation of 15 million peole, run by a dictator no worse than many we have installed or supported elswhere, that did not need to be destroyed to be given "freedom". There were other choices and You wish to ignore them and engage in the purile rhetoric of GWB. What ever happened to patience, planning, intellegence and subversion? Why does America think only with guns? We are men and have an obligation to moral standards, ethical treatment of our fellow man, and decency toward all, be they christian, jew, moslem or other. The political agendas of the lying scum running our country demand that we do something other than follow orders. You may call it treason I call it something else.
I have no illusions as to what people around here think but what is the point of sharing my thoughts with a group that shares my thoughts? Pretty boring, right? I have in fact heard many things around here that have given me food for thought and I argue vociferously against many who find the whole idea of the conflict wth radical Islam an abberation. It is not, as I said to you before, we differ less than you think about this matter.
Posted by: strawman at December 23, 2005 01:31 PM (0ZdtC)
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I win a big pot on two pair (Q9) against a guy in Houston named Mohammad--nickname "Mo"--who sucks a sa Hold 'em Player, but supposedly plays a decent Omaha game.
What does this prove? Nothing, really, other than the fact that this guy is one of the biggest Donkey players in the Houston club scene and when he shows up I know I'll be leaving up.
Posted by: Roach at December 23, 2005 01:42 PM (FH3dM)
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That's a damn good thing to know Roach.
Shit Shelly, it's damn sweet of you to defend my honor, but there's no ground to be gained with the likes of straw. Truly, I'm sorry for deceiving him into thinking that anyone reads his bile.
As for the rest of you folks, Merry Christmas, and the blessings of the season to you all.
Posted by: Casca at December 23, 2005 03:24 PM (2gORp)
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Well, back from work so I will now destroy Strawmans straw arguments.
You see jerk, ID can be proved just as much as it can be disproved, that is to say not at all. In fact ID does not go against the big bang, or evolution or anything else in science it merely says "It seems that an intelligence is as believable as randomness"
Now, I am all for teaching children the TRUTH, and it is the TRUTH, that some people, in fact even some scientists believe this. So, that is what should be taught, that here is the accepted scientific theories, and some people think that randomness is not enough to explain it.
If you disagree with this then YOU are an extremist and a censor.
Furthermore, if you say that ID should not be taught because in your opinion it could NOT be true, then you are essentially saying that there COULD NOT POSSIBLY BE A GOD, and science simply cannot make that claim. Also, you would be in violation of the free excercise clause since that would not be neutral in regard to religion.
See, its all really simple if your mind is not dumbed down with extreme left wing hatred.
Posted by: Kyle N at December 23, 2005 03:57 PM (rSfbK)
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Merry Christmas, Happy Chanukah to all of you.
But I once again implore you, "Include me out" was a wise thought from a great man.
There is a time for everything, and it is time to enjoy our lives and what blessings we have, because thousands of our sons and daughters are on guard in the blowing sands of Iraq eating MRE's tonight so that we can be free from attack by these murderous fanatics.
So join me in a prayer please, for each and every one of them, that they soon return and have the satisfaction of having established a democracy in the center of the most chaotic part of the world that will surely change history for the better.
God Bless all of our fighting men and women, and God Bless George W. Bush, and may God continue to Bless The United States of America.
Posted by: shelly at December 24, 2005 02:31 AM (6mUkl)
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Kyle,
Please spare me. Your post does nothng but prove onece again that those who support ID do so based on their deep seated regligious beliefs and nothing more. Read a little by Stephen J. Gould on this matter. He is far better at explaining the falacies of your construction than I am. Also, read the New Yorker article about the PA trial (about two weeks ago) and you will clearly see the disparity between the reasonable sounding statements of the ID proponents and their real agenda. A blight on our school system is what people like yourself would inflict if your all to reasonable but religious arguments were allowed to prevail.
Posted by: Strawman at December 24, 2005 05:35 AM (LuOXe)
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December 21, 2005
Why Exactly The Filibuster?
Mike Chertoff today:I spent a lot of years as a line prosecutor at the Department of Justice, and as the head of the Criminal Division in this building. Many of the tools which we are talking about using in the patriot act against terrorists are tools that have been used for years in the decades against drug dealers, or people involved in white collar crime. And they've been used effectively and they've been used without there being a significant impact on civil liberties.
The question I ask myself when I hear people criticize roving wiretaps, for example, is, why is this something that we use successfully and prudently in the area of dealing with marijuana importers, but yet a tool that people want to deny us in the war against people who want to import chemical weapons or explosives. That makes no sense to me.
Why is it, for example, that delayed notification search warrants, which again, we use in all kinds of garden variety criminal cases, with the supervision of a judge, why should that tool be denied to our investigators when they're seeking to go into a house with a search warrant to see if there are explosives there, or other kinds of weapons that can be used against Americans.
[It's] Common sense [that] the tools that have been used without any significant impact on civil liberties in a wide variety of cases over the last 10 or 20 years, ought to continue to be available here against perhaps the greatest threat we face in this country, which is the threat of terror.
Well put.
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1
Every person in Congress should be required to repeat these three sentences every day:
One terrorist getting through with a nuclear bomb will kill a million people in NYC.
One terrorist getting through and poisoning the water supply will kill 200,000 people in Chicago.
One terrorist getting through with a dirty bomb will kill 100,000 people in Washington DC.
Posted by: Jake at December 21, 2005 08:31 PM (r/5D/)
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Nice ploy there, considering how little the average citizen realizes the extent to which civil liberties have been trashed by the last 20 years of the drug war.
Posted by: Desert Cat at December 21, 2005 09:00 PM (xdX36)
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Well, Cat, you have a point with the "War on Drugs"
that certainly hasn't helped imprve our society in any way. At least we are not headed down the path of a police state as quickly as Great Britain. Read about it in my latest post.
http://impudent.blognation.us/blog
They are heading to dangerous territory.
Posted by: Kyle N at December 22, 2005 02:30 AM (CAENA)
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Desert Cat,
The only people's who civil liberties have been "trashed" are those who deal and use drugs. So, you are right the "average citizen" doesn't care....but I know all you dope smokers care a lot.
Ironically, I am no fan of the War on Drugs. However, my problem with it is philosophical and has little to do with the execution. The fact is that drug's destroy the lives of millions and also impacts the lives of those close to the user/abuser. However, the libertarian part of me has a difficult time swallowing why one guy can legally drink himself to death with alcohol and but cannot smoke marijuana as a form of relaxation.
p.s. I guess I do have one problem with the execution: I think it is BS that the cops can take private property without being able to explicity link its purchase to money obtained from illegal drug activities. That is just plain fucked up.
Posted by: Blu at December 22, 2005 07:08 AM (hQHZ1)
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The only people's who civil liberties have been "trashed" are those who deal and use drugs....but I know all you dope smokers care a lot.
Blu, wouldn't it be nice if it were so? (After all, them damn hippies don't have civil rights anyway, right?) But it is not true. You mentioned asset forfeiture. That's a biggie! There have been numerous cases of people subjected to asset forfeiture that were only suspected, sometimes on little or no evidence, of being involved somehow in the drug trade. Asset forfeiture itself is an egregious violation of due process guarantees. Furthermore it has a demostrably corrosive effect on law enforcement, as they are the beneficiaries in most cases of the seized assets.
And how many times has a no-knock warrant been served at the wrong house with a SWAT team, sometimes on the elderly, and sometimes with fatal results? Far more than you may suspect.
Financial privacy is all but gone. Try moving more than $10k around sometime and see what reporting requirements you're subject to. Try moving dollar amounts slightly smaller than that amount several times, and see how quickly you find yourself in deep doo-doo.
Have you tried buying cold medicine lately? Have you tried getting effective treatment for chronic pain lately? Right-o! No problems there.
What about law enforcement itself? I read recently about a case where a man and his daughter moved into a duplex unit that happened to be owned by a drug dealer who lived next door. The police executed one of their infamous no-knock warrants on both units, and the first officer through the door was shot dead by the man who thought he was protecting his daughter from a home invasion attempt.
He is on trial for murder now. Nice, huh? But the officer is dead because of this unconstitutional practice.
Want me to go on? I could find a whole lot more like this.
And it is interesting how knee-jerk the common assumption is that anyone concerned about what the war on drugs is doing to this country must be a doper. So you have a philosophical opposition to the war on drugs, but don't mind how it is being carried out (does that even make sense?), but someone who has become more informed and *is* concerned about its execution must have a vested interest somehow? As a matter of fact, the first and last time I toked was some nineteen years ago now.
Posted by: Desert Cat at December 22, 2005 04:17 PM (B2X7i)
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"Go ahead and take my civil rights; I wasn't using them anyway."
(I read this somewhere so cannot claim originality)
Posted by: shelly at December 22, 2005 08:49 PM (6mUkl)
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"Try moving more than $10k around sometime and see what reporting requirements you're subject to."
Oh, to have that problem! I don't think that I'll have to "move" $10K anytime soon, but I get your point.
I heard about the case of the man on trial for murder. That is so fucked up! When things like that happen and innocent people are caught up in it, one can't help but feel like Big Brother is breathing down our collective necks. (This is the case whether one is talking about the War on Drugs or anything else.)
And the cold medicine fiasco is a joke that is pure politics and, unfortunately, embraced by politicians of both the Left and Right.
So, you obviously bring up some very good points. I will admit to misjudging you. When I hear people complaining about the "War on Drugs," they are often "long hair, dope-smoking, FM listeners." Vigilance over private property is always a commendable act. And your concerns appear genuine.
But since I do not have a vested interest, I don't spend a lot of time worried about its execution. My preference is for legalization so execution wouldn't even be an issue.
Posted by: Blu at December 23, 2005 12:53 PM (hQHZ1)
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"We must protect our American Citizens" has been the line used since the turn of the century and maybe longer in order for this government to create situations where our civil liberties are compromised.
We are too short sighted, self involved, and seperatist as Americans to effectively do anything about it. Proven by people like Blu, who seem to believe the only time you should stand up against something is when it directly relates to your person. Should I only fight for Blacks, women, and Jews, since that is my race, gender, and religion? Every right compromised or revoked in this "democratic" country needs to be fought against by every person who deems themself an American citizen. We need to stop being blinded by the fear this government tries to instill in us, or police states will not be as far off as we seem to think.
Posted by: Kimby at December 28, 2005 08:03 AM (Gjdvr)
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What's hilarious is the deep, stunning lack of historical knowledge by people who are clueless about what things used to be like and the power the Federal Government had and exercised during war in the past. Look up even as recently as World War One and the banning of German songs and teaching the language in schools. Learn a bit about the past and what we're facing before posting anything ever again about civil rights. You look astonishingly childish and ignorant about the topic.
Seriously, I'm trying to save you embarassment.
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at December 31, 2005 06:34 PM (1Vbso)
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December 20, 2005
German Quid Pro Quo
Germany has "secretly" released the Hezbollah murderer of an American Navy diver.Apparently ignoring Washington's extradition request for Mohammed Ali Hamadi, German authorities have secretly released the Lebanese Hezbollah member who was serving a life sentence in the country for the hijacking of a TWA jet and for the murder of a US navy diver.
German prosecutors confirmed the release of Mohammed Ali Hamadi, now in his late 30s, to the Associated Press and said he was flown back to Lebanon last week.
Hamadi was convicted in 1989 by a German court of killing US Navy diver Robert Dean Stethem during the 1985 hijacking of a TWA flight diverted to Beirut. He was sentenced to life without parole. His sentence is one Germany reserves for the most serious and cruel crimes. It is difficult but not impossible to release someone who receives such a sentence after 15 years.
Nice going krauts.
Two observations occur to me. One, this secret release is not so secret, is it? Nice to see that leaks are not something unique to the American government.
Second, this guy was supposedly sentenced to the worst sentence you can get in a place without the death penalty: life without the possibility of parole. Except NOW HE'S FREE!
That's kind of an argument for the death penalty, don't you think? At least in cases of international terrorism, where the continued earthly existence of the criminal becomes a blackmail opportunity for terrorists.
Germany, an entire nation with no balls.
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So, they released a guilty terrorist that probably isn't even trying to pretend to be a reformed inmate? The Eurotrash are just playing out their anti-American tit-for-tat.....
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/nation/terror/20051206-0915-rice.html
BTW, doesn't Merkel look like the Kathleen Blanco of Germany?
Posted by: reagan80 at December 20, 2005 10:02 AM (pa7yv)
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Wanna bet on how long it takes the Mossad to take him out?
He was safer in a German jail.
Posted by: shelly at December 20, 2005 10:05 AM (6mUkl)
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God, I hope you are right, Shelly. Of course, if that does occur, Speilberg will have to come out with a movie about how it was really Israel's fault that Hamadi turned into a hijacker and a murderer.
Posted by: Blu at December 20, 2005 10:55 AM (5YINj)
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A murderer in Germany normally serves less than eight years. Husbands don't use lawyers to get a divorce, they use a knife. They get a eight year vacation in a country club setting and never have to pay alimony.
Posted by: Jake at December 20, 2005 12:22 PM (r/5D/)
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Jake, I would like to think that what you are saying is an exaggeration, But I am sure it is not.
And to think those eurorodents call us barbaric because we execute the guilty.
What can be more barbaric than turning loose murderers?
Posted by: Kyle N at December 20, 2005 02:19 PM (L1JUZ)
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WOO HOO !!!! LOOK! guys I made my own blog.(finaly)
please tell me what ya think. http://impudent.blognation.us/blog
Posted by: Kyle N at December 20, 2005 03:26 PM (L1JUZ)
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I'm sure that the Germans had this all figured out. You see, the Esteemed Anti-Zionist Freedom Fighter was convicted of hijacking a *TWA* plane. Since TWA no longer exists, Germany figures that he can't do any harm in the future.
If the disco bombers are being held in Germany, then Germany should release them too. Disco is dead.
Posted by: Ontario Emperor at December 20, 2005 04:34 PM (FPdMX)
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Pretty vile. Of course, this week *we* released Dr Germ and others of the same ilk in Iraq.
I wonder if there is some kind of contest going on this week between governments as to who can do the dumbest thing?
Posted by: David Foster at December 20, 2005 08:02 PM (7TmYw)
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"Victoria Toensing, a former Justice Department official in the Reagan administration who oversaw efforts to extradite Hammadi in 1987, said German authorities threw obstacles in the way of U.S. prosecutors at that time and only reluctantly cooperated. "They were not open at all," she recalled. "We knew he would be released early, way back then."
Source: Washingtonpost.com
I guess to the German government, Islamic terrorism is just not that serious a crime. Hate to be cynical about it, but well... the evidence is sort of hitting us full in the face now, isn't it? And normally, I'm against the death penalty (I think I'm a rare conservative with that point of view), but it's stories like this that give me pause regarding that stance.
The world is better off with a rotten killer like that dead. Not honoring the ultimate punishment -- whether a death penalty or a real, unrevocable life-sentence -- ends up being the equivalent of condoning the crime. And what does that say about the German government?
Did the German goverment, in spite of their denial release this person in order to gain the release of civillian hostages? Well, if so, they should at least come out and say it. I'd still be disgusted in them -- what's that saying:
"Once you pay the Danegeld, you never get rid of the Dane"? -- but at least it'd be an attempt at doing good. A misguided one sure to backfire -- it would suddenly make way too many other people targets -- but it would be far and away better than them releasing him for no good reason at all. At that point, it'd just be a completely senseless act.
Posted by: ElMondoHummus (formerly E.M.H.) at December 20, 2005 10:37 PM (2z4/C)
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It's good that Germany gave GWB and U.S. arrogance the finger. It helps to remind Americans that they usually won't get what they want.
Under Bush, we're headed toward third-world status pretty quickly. In fact, Germany is a much bigger economy than we are, and their actions will continue to get more support from the international community than ours.
The U.S. is far from being the greatest country on Earth. You're going to have to live with that: it's time to swallow a little pride!
Regarding the guy who snuffed the U.S. Navy Seal and is now laughing with friends back in Lebanon, he'll be commended at home and live a long, happy life, just like Osama is living now (remember Osama?).
Speaking of Osama, his case is a classic example how powerless the U.S. military really is. Here's a guy who, way back in 2001, destroyed the financial, trade and power center of this country, using nothing but boxcutter knives, and the entire U.S. military and all of our secret agencies and "trained experts" using $200 billion have still not found him even as we now go into 2006. Excuses excuses. The fact is that we are incompetent and unsophisticated.
Again, compared to Germany, our education system is laughable; and, proportionally, we churn out more illiterate people from high school every year than all of the other 10 largest economies combined.
Boy, do I feel safe!
Posted by: anti greed at December 21, 2005 10:25 AM (y5qXi)
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On the user level government is grotesquely incompetent, but out there in the nooks and crannys of national defense, there lurk pockets of industry. I should think that we're following this fellow to find his friends. One can never have too many sources.
Posted by: Casca at December 21, 2005 11:01 AM (y9m6I)
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Casca! Back from vacation, i see. i missed you!
Posted by: annika at December 21, 2005 02:20 PM (zAOEU)
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"Germany is a much bigger economy than we are"
U.S. GDP $11.7 T
Germany GDP $2.3 T
http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/rankorder/2001rank.html
Posted by: David Foster at December 21, 2005 02:37 PM (7TmYw)
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Thanks David. What a ridiculous statement. The German economy is in shambles----just like the French economy. Our economy, on the other hand, is soaring. Both Germany and France demonstrate what happens when government decides it can be all things to all people. It is also a great example of how high taxation and socialism destroy economic productivity and creativity.
Our education system, by the way, is run by the Left. We are lucky it is not in worse shape.
Posted by: Blu at December 21, 2005 05:31 PM (hQHZ1)
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i stopped reading after that sentence. It's like starting a comment out with: "the earth is flat." Why bother?
Posted by: annika at December 21, 2005 07:23 PM (OMI8b)
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Wait, wait... his comment wasn't satire?
Posted by: ElMondoHummus at December 21, 2005 08:39 PM (2z4/C)
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I love it when people call Germans - Krauts. They hate that.
Here is a video depicting the stupidity of France's Cousins.
Posted by: tony at December 22, 2005 03:35 AM (lEHiv)
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How ironic that Germany and France should be "friends" and "allies".
I grew up with my father saying "Put a gun in the hands of a German and he turns towards France."
Posted by: shelly at December 22, 2005 11:10 AM (6mUkl)
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December 19, 2005
Problem Solved
Bush seems to have his own "no controlling legal authority" problem now. He's straining the war powers and the congressional use of force resolution to justify his domestic wiretapping without a warrant. Well, after one semester of Con Law, i think i have found a way out of this mess. Simply invoke the Commerce Clause. It means whatever you want it to mean, you can use it to do
anything, and Courts love expanding it. Only problem is getting it to cover executive action, but i'll leave that up to Alberto. Let him earn his keep and give some good advice for once.
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I had a "heh" moment when I double-taked this bit:
"Courts love expading it."
Expading it?! Is this some fancy legal term I've got to look up on Wikipedia?
Expading it? Uhhh... Oh. Wait. Never mind.
Posted by: gcotharn at December 19, 2005 08:53 AM (z/6tW)
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At his press conference today, Bush revealed that he is intercepting calls from Al Qaida types to the US before they reach the US. The constitution does not limit him when enemy operatives call into the US.
Posted by: Jake at December 19, 2005 08:54 AM (r/5D/)
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Sorry. i did that post on my phone. Proofreading is hard on the small screen.
Jake, i think Bush's problem is not the Constitution, but the 1978 Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, which i admit i have not read. However, from what i have heard, it seems like Bush could have, and probably should have, followed that law by at least using the retroactive approval process.
There may be some reason why that was not wise, and there was a line in the press conference that made me think Bush had a reason but couldn't say because it might reveal too much about the specifics of the case.
Let me also say, at the risk of disappointing my Libertarian visitors, that i have absolutely no problem with the government doing what it did here. Eavesdrop away, i say. It's better than getting blowed up.
But it was a stupid move, politically. Especially given that the Patriot Act may now be in jeapordy because of it. Gonzales, or whoever, should not have advised going around FISA. They should have assumed that there would be a leak, as there always is.
Posted by: annika at December 19, 2005 09:46 AM (zAOEU)
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Check out a funny site dedicated to the absurdity and satire nature of saying “It’s All George Bush’s Fault!”
http://www.itsallgeorgebushsfault.com
Regards,
Notta Libb
Posted by: Notta Libb at December 19, 2005 09:53 AM (IRfdO)
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No no, my point is not that typos happen - I could care less about them. My point is that I thought, for several moments, that "expading" must be a real legal concept, and that I would have to look it up and figure out what it was. I was "hehing" at myself.
Posted by: gcotharn at December 19, 2005 09:59 AM (z/6tW)
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Annie,
Rare, but I don't agree with your analysis on this one. Hewitt has been doing a great job on this story from both a constitutional and political perspective. However, I believe that this is a circumstance where reasonable people that tend to agree may find themselves disagreeing.
Posted by: Blu at December 19, 2005 11:51 AM (5YINj)
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You don't mean to tell me there was any doubt that HH would not be totally in support of the administration in this case?
Posted by: annika at December 19, 2005 01:13 PM (IoU0J)
Posted by: Kyle N at December 19, 2005 02:48 PM (j0ukZ)
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Yeah, I have actually posted here complaining about HH supporting the Bushies no matter what. I just happen to feel he is compelling on this matter...in fact, he is discussing the topic at this very moment.
Posted by: Blu at December 19, 2005 03:14 PM (5YINj)
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I was sorta against the president, then i read the time article linked on drudge. It was total crap, it actually came out and called the president a dictator (or at least likened him closely to one).
Werther or not the president was right or wrong, i do belive he did what he did in the name of national security.
I heard on glenn beck that the people that were monitored were in the cell phone of a high ranking Al Quedea member.
Posted by: cube at December 20, 2005 07:07 AM (nyNr0)
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Although I'm generally skeptical of using Wikipedia, the entry for the FISA is decent.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Intelligence_Surveillance_Act
For a balance to most pieces written in the MSM that assume we are mindless sheep, (or see page 31 of the WashPost - Kristol's piece)
***********
Thank You for Wiretapping
Why the Founders made presidents dominant on national security.
Wisconsin Democrat Russ Feingold wants to be President, and that's fair enough. By all means go for it in 2008. The same applies to Lindsey Graham, the South Carolina Republican who's always on the Sunday shows fretting about the latest criticism of the Bush Administration's prosecution of the war on terror. But until you run nationwide and win, Senators, please stop stripping the Presidency of its Constitutional authority to defend America.
That is the real issue raised by the Beltway furor over last week's leak of National Security Agency wiretaps on international phone calls involving al Qaeda suspects. The usual assortment of Senators and media potentates is howling that the wiretaps are "illegal," done "in total secret," and threaten to bring us a long, dark night of fascism. "I believe it does violate the law," averred Mr. Feingold on CNN Sunday.
The truth is closer to the opposite. What we really have here is a perfect illustration of why America's Founders gave the executive branch the largest measure of Constitutional authority on national security. They recognized that a committee of 535 talking heads couldn't be trusted with such grave responsibility. There is no evidence that these wiretaps violate the law. But there is lots of evidence that the Senators are "illegally" usurping Presidential power--and endangering the country in the process.
The allegation of Presidential law-breaking rests solely on the fact that Mr. Bush authorized wiretaps without first getting the approval of the court established under the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978. But no Administration then or since has ever conceded that that Act trumped a President's power to make exceptions to FISA if national security required it. FISA established a process by which certain wiretaps in the context of the Cold War could be approved, not a limit on what wiretaps could ever be allowed.
The courts have been explicit on this point, most recently in In Re: Sealed Case, the 2002 opinion by the special panel of appellate judges established to hear FISA appeals. In its per curiam opinion, the court noted that in a previous FISA case (U.S. v. Truong), a federal "court, as did all the other courts to have decided the issue [our emphasis], held that the President did have inherent authority to conduct warrantless searches to obtain foreign intelligence information." And further that "we take for granted that the President does have that authority and, assuming that is so, FISA could not encroach on the President's constitutional power."
On Sunday Mr. Graham opined that "I don't know of any legal basis to go around" FISA--which suggests that next time he should do his homework before he implies on national TV that a President is acting like a dictator. (Mr. Graham made his admission of ignorance on CBS's "Face the Nation," where he was representing the Republican point of view. Democrat Joe Biden was certain that laws had been broken, while the two journalists asking questions clearly had no idea what they were talking about. So much for enlightening television.)
The mere Constitution aside, the evidence is also abundant that the Administration was scrupulous in limiting the FISA exceptions. They applied only to calls involving al Qaeda suspects or those with terrorist ties. Far from being "secret," key Members of Congress were informed about them at least 12 times, President Bush said yesterday. The two district court judges who have presided over the FISA court since 9/11 also knew about them.
Inside the executive branch, the process allowing the wiretaps was routinely reviewed by Justice Department lawyers, by the Attorney General personally, and with the President himself reauthorizing the process every 45 days. In short, the implication that this is some LBJ-J. Edgar Hoover operation designed to skirt the law to spy on domestic political enemies is nothing less than a political smear.
All the more so because there are sound and essential security reasons for allowing such wiretaps. The FISA process was designed for wiretaps on suspected foreign agents operating in this country during the Cold War. In that context, we had the luxury of time to go to the FISA court for a warrant to spy on, say, the economic counselor at the Soviet embassy.
In the war on terror, the communications between terrorists in Frankfurt and agents in Florida are harder to track, and when we gather a lead the response often has to be immediate. As we learned on 9/11, acting with dispatch can be a matter of life and death. The information gathered in these wiretaps is not for criminal prosecution but solely to detect and deter future attacks. This is precisely the kind of contingency for which Presidential power and responsibility is designed.
What the critics in Congress seem to be proposing--to the extent they've even thought much about it--is the establishment of a new intelligence "wall" that would allow the NSA only to tap phones overseas while the FBI would tap them here. Terrorists aren't about to honor such a distinction. As Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said Sunday on NBC's "Meet the Press," before 9/11 "our intelligence agencies looked out; our law enforcement agencies looked in. And people could--terrorists could--exploit the seam between them." The wiretaps are designed to close the seam.
As for power without responsibility, nobody beats Congress. Mr. Bush has publicly acknowledged and defended his decisions. But the Members of Congress who were informed about this all along are now either silent or claim they didn't get the full story. This is why these columns have long opposed requiring the disclosure of classified operations to the Congressional Intelligence Committees. Congress wants to be aware of everything the executive branch does, but without being accountable for anything at all. If Democrats want to continue this game of intelligence and wiretap "gotcha," the White House should release the names of every Congressman who received such a briefing.
Which brings us to this national security leak, which Mr. Bush yesterday called "a shameful act." We won't second-guess the New York Times decision to publish. But everyone should note the irony that both the Times and Washington Post claimed to be outraged by, and demanded a special counsel to investigate, the leak of Valerie Plame's identity, which did zero national security damage.
By contrast, the Times' NSA leak last week, and an earlier leak in the Washington Post on "secret" prisons for al Qaeda detainees in Europe, are likely to do genuine harm by alerting terrorists to our defenses. If more reporters from these newspapers now face the choice of revealing their sources or ending up in jail, those two papers will share the Plame blame.
The NSA wiretap uproar is one of those episodes, alas far too common, that make us wonder if Washington is still a serious place. Too many in the media and on Capitol Hill have forgotten that terrorism in the age of WMD poses an existential threat to our free society. We're glad Mr. Bush and his team are forcefully defending their entirely legal and necessary authority to wiretap enemies seeking to kill innocent Americans.
*****
We live in a world of extraordinary technological and scientific change. The world is simply moving so much faster today than at any point in any of our lifetimes; and a good bet is that this sense of speed—indeed, this sense of acceleration—will only continue. The Administration and Congress need to solve the problems the changing security environment creates instead of ad-hocing it on the fly.
FISA was written in a time of nation-state adversaries with much reduced communication tools than today. The Geneva Convention was written without much thought to non-state actors or adversaries who don't even recognize rules of warfare. Instead of writing endless memoranda debating the nuances of bending existing procedures, how about standing up, saying things are different, and I need (the UN, Congress, etc.) to fix it?
Posted by: Col Steve at December 20, 2005 11:27 AM (pj2h7)
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December 18, 2005
Breaking News

DEMOCRATS RESPOND TO BUSH SPEECH
Christiane Amanpour delivered the Democratic response to the president's speech on the Iraq War tonight. In a nutshell, she said we're losing.
Other democratic responses included the following:
Halliburton Halliburton. Bush spied, people died. Iraqis flying kites. Need specifics specifics timetable timetable pullout pullout. No WMDs.
blah blah blah blah zzzzzzzzz clunk.
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Christiane Amanpour is, perhaps, the most annoying Democratic operative----oh excuse me----reporter on television. Is there anyone more haughty or condescending? Her obvious hatred from America and for Bush particulary is so transparent that it's really comical. Her reporting on Iraq has been atrocious---nearly 100% negative despite the reality on the ground. It must have destroyed her entire year to see such successful elections. She and the rest of her left-wing buddies in the MSM will continue to stick to the template that you so well mimicked in your post. They have got their story and they are sticking to it---truth be damned. But the MSM isn't biased....right?
I'll bet Christine wasn't the least bit upset about the leaks leading to the NYT story on Friday that may ultimately lead to unnecessary deaths. Nor I doubt was she all that worried about the utter hypocrisy of Democratic Senators who know very well what was going on and then pretended for purely political reasons to feign indignation.But, hey, Bush lied, Halliburton is an evil, greedy capitalist institution, and there were no WMD.
Posted by: Blu at December 18, 2005 10:34 PM (5YINj)
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Just in case there is still a human being alive that doesn't know to whom she is married, let me remind you that it is James Rosen, the now "reporter" who was the voice of Madeleine Albright (remember the HAT?) at the State Department when Clinton ruled the world.
That CNN would still even use her as a "reporter", explains why the world watches Fox news all the time.
Posted by: shelly at December 18, 2005 10:54 PM (6mUkl)
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Why are the democrats so hot for a "specific specific timetable timetable for pullout pullout" LOL?
What the hell does this accomplish anyways? Did I miss something?
Oh right, they want our soldiers to have died in vain, they want Iraq to fail as a democracy, and they want the Terrorists to gain control of the Middle East and accomplish their first phase in their mission for a global caliphate...I forgot.
Fuck the Democrats.
Posted by: Rob at December 19, 2005 05:36 AM (ui9fJ)
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I wonder how anti-Semitic that Amanpour bitch is? Imagine her coverage of the Israelis....
If she went to a Catholic school as a kid and married a Jew, why does she get wet over Islam?
Posted by: reagan80 at December 19, 2005 07:43 AM (dathD)
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December 14, 2005
Wednesday Is Poetry Day
In honor of Peter Jackson's latest film, here is some ape poetry:
Teaching The Ape To Write Poems
by James Tate
They didn't have much trouble
teaching the ape to write poems:
first they strapped him into the chair,
then tied the pencil around his hand
(the paper had already been nailed down).
Then Dr. Bluespire leaned over his shoulder
and whispered into his ear:
"You look like a god sitting there.
Why don't you try writing something?"
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Sweet. Wednesday may be poetry day, but anyday is good for ape day.
Don't ask, I have no idea.
Posted by: tesco at December 14, 2005 08:43 PM (c0E+O)
Posted by: Hugo at December 14, 2005 09:21 PM (Yu24L)
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Annika, or anyone else,I am trying to start my own blog, I want to conduct a poll giving people a choice of six items. Do you know how I can do that?
Posted by: Kyle N at December 15, 2005 04:29 PM (tFe8h)
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Kyle, click on the link at the bottom of my assassin poll. that will take you to pollhost where you can sign up to host your own polls.
Posted by: annika at December 15, 2005 08:28 PM (7mM+j)
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Excellent advice for writing...anything. Maybe I should apply that advice to my own blog.
Posted by: Victor at December 16, 2005 06:05 AM (L3qPK)
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December 13, 2005
The Media Is On The Side Of The Enemy, Update #1,439
This is beautiful.
Caught with their pants down again. You simply cannot trust the media to report the truth.
The media is on the side of the enemy.
Update: President Bush has now given four major speeches in recent weeks on the Iraq War. i see a new pattern emerging.
1. Democrats complain that Bush needs to explain his Iraq policy.
2. Republicans* admit Bush hasn't done a good job of explaining Iraq policy.
3. Bush explains Iraq policy in a major speech.
4. Media ignores major speech, but pulls one negative quote for headlines. ("30,000 civilians killed" or "Bush takes blame for faulty intel")
5. Go to #1, repeat cycle.
And in the meantime, everybody ignores the fact that Iraq continues to improve every day.
_______________
* myself included.
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Post contains 152 words, total size 1 kb.
1
There is no media bias.
Just ask Dan Rather. You'd take his word for it, wouldn't you?
Posted by: Shelly at December 13, 2005 04:16 PM (6mUkl)
2
Right on annie, you're the best!
Posted by: Scof at December 13, 2005 05:02 PM (RDouC)
3
I was fortunate enough to see Bush's speech in its entirety, and the Q and A which followed. Bush kicked ass! He even used threatened Syria and Iran. Today I glanced at The Ft. Worth Star Telegram, and the front page was filled with dreck, including a story which could've been run on any day, but just HAPPENED to bump Bush's speech off the front page:
"Iran-backed militia gains power in Iraq"
Bush's speech rated a 1"x1" photo in the bottom right, directing me to an account of his speech on Page A15. The headline to the article on 15A:
"About 30,000 Iraqis have died in the war, Bush says"
The article, by Ron Hutchinson of Knight-Ridder, said nothing positive until the final sentence of the 5th paragraph:
"Although the crowd of several hundred in Philadelphia's Park Hyatt Hotel seemed generally supportive, there were dissenters."
Nice qualifier. I consider even the assertion in this sentence to be spin. On TV, a strong majority of the crowd seemed supportive. Paragraphs 6-11 covered the speech and the Q&A, then Rep. John Murtha made an appearance in paragraph 12&13. Paragraph 14&15 talked about the Iraqi elections.
Typical MSM - shove Bush's outstanding performance under the rug. When OIF success becomes obvious, and the public figures out how badly they've been misled, their relationship to the MSM will be forever altered.
Posted by: gcotharn at December 13, 2005 09:33 PM (nD6Iu)
4
It is astounding that they have lied to our faces for so long, and now they just cannot understand why everyone is abandoning them for the alternate media.
Here is a little secret that the libbies dont want discussed. A lot of them now get most of their news from Fox. The way I know this is that on any liberal blog they will go on and on about things that appeared on Fox the night before. They bitch about it but Fox has the best coverage so they watch.
Posted by: Kyle N at December 14, 2005 03:51 AM (5yVJK)
Posted by: annika at December 14, 2005 08:09 AM (b/90D)
6
And I had heard that they just read Annika's Journal and skip Fox...
Posted by: shelly at December 14, 2005 02:04 PM (6mUkl)
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I certainly hope the REAL media is on the side of the brave and noble insurgents - I certainly am!
Free Palestine!
Posted by: Kimmitt at December 14, 2005 03:14 PM (V2eAR)
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Anni,
You get twitier every day. There was no enemy in Iraq. We invaded and called the people who want us the fuck out the enemy and you have the audacity to split hairs with the MSM's depiction of 30,000 deaths? And, what? This sham democracy that's forming gives you a good feeling
deep inside but 30,000 dead makes you angry because the MSM did not qualify that the Criminal said "citizens" which could include republican guard killed in their barracks, regular army slaughtered as they retreated, women, toddlers, infants, teenagers, elderly, and a host of others? This by you is a problem? Gosh, the enemy loving MSM chose not to listen clearly to our lying sack of shit commander and chief whilst he once again repeats his hollow pledges, purile simplifications about government, democracy and elections, the sorry state of the state of Iraq, the readiness of the "soldiers" we are training, and basically every other aspect of this criminal transgression against all that is decent and moral, and because the MSM has stopped buying this barrow of crap they are the "friends of our enemy"
Would this have pleased you?
DEAD Description
1,650 children between 5 and 7
1,125 men employed as shop keepers
2,500 stay at home moms
9,250 men and women over 65
27 men in american custody
7,345 women who held civil service jobs
5,345 children between 7-19
2,758 men fighting to repel occupation
30,000 total
Your right I guess, anything other than this is a clear demonstration of liberal bias and deep unabashed love of our "enemy"
Posted by: strawman at December 14, 2005 04:16 PM (0ZdtC)
9
I went to hear Bush speak in Minneapolis last week. The new information I heard from his speech that Al Qaida has decided that Iraq is the battlefield where they plan to fight the US to the bitter end.
He said he would rather fight them in Iraq than fight them on American soil. I agree. He spoke with no notes or teleprompter for 25 minutes. His eloquence surprised me.
Posted by: Jake at December 14, 2005 04:23 PM (r/5D/)
10
Strawman:
90% of the civilian casualties are from Al Qaida and Sunnis targeting women and children for execution with car bombs and suicide bombers.
Bombers that are cheered on by the Democrats and their leadership. These bombers would have given up long ago if they had not had encouragement from the left.
Your head butcher, Howard Dean and the bloodthirsty tribe he leads are more responsible for those vaporized children than the suicide bomber who pulls the trigger. At least the bomber does not live on to cheer the results as the Democrats do.
Posted by: Jake at December 14, 2005 04:38 PM (r/5D/)
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Hey JAke,
Who told you Al Qaida was going to fight to the bitter end in Iraq? I rest my case.
Posted by: strawman at December 14, 2005 04:55 PM (0ZdtC)
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strawman:
Al-Qaida No. 2 Ayman al-Zawahri has said that if Al Qaida loses in Iraq there goal of ruling the Middle East is lost. When President Bush and al-Zawahri say the same thing, I believe it.
Posted by: Jake at December 14, 2005 06:58 PM (r/5D/)
13
Jake, we all ignored the nut case from left field, and he went away with his crap for a while.
Now that you have noticed his prattling and even worse, responded to it, is just like How Weird Dean and his merry gang of lost souls. You are encouraging him.
Just ignore him and maybe he'll go away again.
Posted by: shelly at December 14, 2005 07:21 PM (6mUkl)
14
It's a waste of time to try converting us "Reich-whingers". Strawman would be better off finding women bloggers that share his views such as this one......
http://raymitheminx.blogspot.com/
She's bashed Bush on occasion and she often shows her T&A.
I'm sure Tony Pierce's blog could hook him up with other similar links.
Posted by: reagan80 at December 14, 2005 07:56 PM (K9tdw)
15
I think Strawman's comments are great. I love Strawman, Air America, and all the other moonbats who promote the left's opinions. It shows how far off the deep end they have gone and actually helped the Republicans win the Presidency, House, Senate, and more governorships. Keep up the good work! Where can I make a donation to Air America?
Posted by: TheMan at December 15, 2005 07:04 AM (v/869)
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Call Al Franken (if you can find him).
Posted by: shelly at December 15, 2005 07:07 AM (6mUkl)
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> 3. Bush explains Iraq policy in a major speech.
I've seen a number of speeches where his speechwriters employ the usual rhetorical tools that are simply intended to rally rather than inform.
That's why you see a lot of;
> 2. Republicans admit Bush hasn't done a good job of explaining Iraq policy.
Now he has taken responsibility for the decision to go to war. Funny, I would have thought that was obvious from day one. I suppose that means that he is relieving Cheney from the pressure of having made that decision.
There might be some who believe that the Administration did not steer the prewar Iraq intelligence analysis, but those 'some' are becoming a tiny, strident, increasingly bitter minority.
Posted by: will at December 15, 2005 08:09 AM (h7Ciu)
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what percentage, do you think, is made up of folks who believe the administration did "steer prewar Iraq intelligence analysis" and don't have a problem with that?
Posted by: annika at December 15, 2005 08:57 AM (zAOEU)
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Your question is a good one, but "steer" is not the best grounds for the question. Where there is no smoking gun, there are only educated guesses and probabilities. Bush looked at the available info and made his decision. Most of America has no problem with that. We voted him into office to do that very thing.
Posted by: gcotharn at December 15, 2005 10:11 AM (NS9sP)
20
The left complaint is really this:
"Bush succeeded at leading us into war in Iraq."
They are actually arguing that Bush was unfairly effective at the difficult task of moving the nation to war. They are arguing that the nation deserved for Bush to lay out the negatives more clearly, effectively undermining his goal of moving the nation to invasion.
The left argument is illogical and laughable. Its also incorporates lies - especially the part where they morph Bush's assertion that we would
definitely succeed in Iraq into an assertion that we would
easily succeed. Bush
could not move the nation to war w/o asserting that we would
definitely succeed. That he said
easily is a lie - although, by historical standards, we are succeeding easily. And that is not to take anything away from the incredible difficulty of the task. It is, instead, a compliment to our forces and our strength, and a compliment to the Iraqis for taking to democracy.
That the Iraqis actually have taken to democracy - albeit an Iraqi style democracy that includes some violence - is the ultimate comment on Bush's correct strategic vision; and on his reading of the intelligence tea-leaves he was dealt.
Posted by: gcotharn at December 15, 2005 10:40 AM (NS9sP)
21
Recall the Senate voted 77-23 in Oct 2002 to authorize the President to attack Iraq. The House approved an identical resolution, 296-133 (the resolution became Public Law 107-243). If you have read the law (a big assumption I know for those who don't want facts to cloud their opinion), you would note the following section:
"Whereas in Public Law 105–235 (August 14, 199

, Congress concluded that IraqÂ’s continuing weapons of mass destruction programs threatened vital United States interests and international
peace and security, declared Iraq to be in ‘‘material and unacceptable breach of its international obligations’’ and urged the Presi-
dent ‘‘to take appropriate action, in accordance with the Constitution and relevant laws of the United States, to bring Iraq into compliance with its international obligations’’"
** Note the date of 1998 - I'm waiting to hear how then Gov Bush et al manipulated the intelligence during the Clinton Administration so Congress would reach this conclusion **
Also, Congress was well aware the law authorized the use of force
"section 8(a)(1) of the War Powers Resolution, the Congress declares that this section is intended to constitute specific statutory authorization within the meaning of section 5(b) of the War Powers Resolution."
"I believe we have an obligation to protect the United States by preventing him from getting these weapons and either using them himself or passing them or their components on to terrorists who share his destructive intent," said Gephardt, who helped draft the measure.
From CommonDreams (hardly a supporter of Bush to say the least). "It should also be remembered that it was the Clinton administration, not the current administration, which first insisted-despite the lack of evidence-that Iraq had successfully concealed or re-launched its chemical, biological, and nuclear weapons programs. Clinton's fear-mongering around Iraqi WMDs began in 1997, several years after they had been successfully destroyed or rendered inoperable. Based upon the alleged Iraqi threat, Clinton ordered a massive four-day bombing campaign against Iraq in December 1998, forcing the evacuation of inspectors from the United Nations Special Commission on Iraq (UNSCOM) and the UN's International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA)."
and
"Clinton was egged on to take such unilateral military action by leading Senate Democratic leaders -- including then-Minority Leader Tom Daschle, John Kerry, Carl Levin, and others who signed a letter in October 1998 -- urging the president "to take necessary actions, including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspected Iraqi sites, to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs." Meanwhile, Clinton's Secretary of State Madeleine Albright was repeatedly making false statements regarding Iraq's supposed possession of WMDs, even justifying the enormous humanitarian toll from the U.S.-led economic sanctions on Iraq on the grounds that "Saddam Hussein has . . . chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass destruction."
and
Even some prominent congressional Democrats who did not vote to authorize the invasion were willing to defend the Bush administration's WMD claims. When House Democratic leader Nancy Pelosi appeared on NBC's Meet the Press in December 2002, she claimed: "Saddam Hussein certainly has chemical and biological weapons. There is no question about that."
If you claim that the President "skewed" the intelligence, then why would the Administration allow the 2002 NIE, a primary source given the Congress to justify military action, to contain in the document a much stronger dissent within the intelligence community than any other NIE in history?
Look at David Kay's testimony in 2004:
"As leader of the effort of the Iraqi Survey Group, I spent most of my days not out in the field leading inspections. It's typically what you do at that level. I was trying to motivate, direct, find strategies.
In the course of doing that, I had innumerable analysts who came to me in apology that the world that we were finding was not the world that they had thought existed and that they had estimated. Reality on the ground differed in advance.
And never -- not in a single case -- was the explanation, "I was pressured to do this." The explanation was very often, "The limited data we had led one to reasonably conclude this. I now see that there's another explanation for it."
And each case was different, but the conversations were sufficiently in depth and our relationship was sufficiently frank that I'm convinced that, at least to the analysts I dealt with, I did not come across a single one that felt it had been, in the military term, "inappropriate command influence" that led them to take that position.
It was not that. It was the honest difficulty based on the intelligence that had -- the information that had been collected that led the analysts to that conclusion.
And you know, almost in a perverse way, I wish it had been undue influence because we know how to correct that. "
I'm waiting to see how the MSM media report the Iraqi elections. Had some peers send aerial photos showing long lines of Iraqis waiting to vote. Pretty remarkable considering that the whole time those folks were in line waiting, they were exposed targets for terrorists. Some Americans would see that line and think “What a hassle!” Iraqis see the line, get right in it, and think “What an opportunity!”
Posted by: Col Steve at December 15, 2005 11:36 AM (pj2h7)
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Will,
You see, Annika thinks that OBL might have gone to Iraq and conspired with SH to cause tons of grief for you and me here at home. SHe thinks this because a traitor she otherwise loaths and has repeatedly called a liar, RIchard Clark, wrote a memo suggesting this was a possibility. Annika, quivering in her boots, was grateful that Clark didn't suggest OBL would consider going back to SA and hooking up with his family since that would have precluded Bush from acting. He gets all whinny and cranky without Prince BAndar or a Bin Laden shoving a crude oil slathered dick up his ass. But,lo, out of the loop/in the loop, Clarke said "Iraq", Annika was pleased, and Bush could continue directing the Prince toward his magic walnut. "Push overs", Anni said, (or maybe that was just Bush giving Bandar a hint) "me and my sig could tear Saddam a new one in two or three days" she cried stomping an 8 x 10 of Rummy hugging Saddam, breaking the heel on a new pair of 600.00 dollar Choo's. Surely, she thought, Rummy will have no trouble with these Iraqi son's of bitches. He'll kill 50,000 with or so with precision bombing and the rest will throw flowers and swirl cognac in our honor. And most importantly Osama will be rendered toothless in a desert abattoir like beef trimmings to tallow. (its a little mixed up I know but you get the point.)
How's it working out Annika? Smell any tallow yet?
So far as I can tell, it worked out really well. Only a few of the dead Iraqi's are voting today, the country is thriving;plenty of fresh water and electricity, oils-a-pumping paying back America for all it's help, kids are back in all new refurbished schools they now call Madras's and the artifacts from the museums are being auctioned off by Christies to buy arms for those pesky insurgents. Oh, and George is having a tough time sitting still but at least he isn't bleeding.
"The President reads tea leaves not books" nice bumper sticker.
THe fact that quasi intelligent people like your selves still think it was just our dumbass anal ysts (not George thank you) at the myriad of over funded but understaffed intelligence agencies that got it wrong, is astounding. Dozens of people who work there have come foward to say just the opposite, that the cabal willfully rejected contrary to invasion intel and cherry picked or badgered people to re-evaluate. I know this don't bother our hostess but she has other- worldly ideas about morality.
Anni, if Clark had said Osama was potentially heading for Pakistan (where, BTW,he most surely is) should have we have invaded prophylactically?
Posted by: strawman at December 15, 2005 03:13 PM (0ZdtC)
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these days, i always suggest using a prophylactic whenever invading a new territory.
Posted by: annika at December 15, 2005 08:30 PM (7mM+j)
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Ooops, bad experience I guess. It happens to the best of us.
Posted by: Casca at December 15, 2005 09:09 PM (amHxi)
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Pakistan is kind of arid. No one wants to invade that.
Posted by: gcotharn at December 15, 2005 09:52 PM (NS9sP)
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Iraq, conversely, has the lush and fertile crescent between the rivers. Invading Iraq is a natural act - sanctified by God.
Posted by: gcotharn at December 15, 2005 09:58 PM (NS9sP)
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Col Steve:
Please stop confusing our leftist friends with the facts. It tends to make their pitiful arguments even more more pitiful, and thus, they cannot even consider reconsideration.
In the future, please stick to rumor and obfuscation, in order to leave them with a possibility of consideration.
I mean, a good rumor beats the facts every time in their world.
Just be thankful that when the chips are down, there are more of us than of them.
Posted by: shelly at December 15, 2005 10:17 PM (6mUkl)
28
"Iraq, conversely, has the lush and fertile crescent between the rivers. Invading Iraq is a natural act - sanctified by God."
LMAO...that is so wrong.....
Posted by: reagan80 at December 15, 2005 10:30 PM (K9tdw)
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Let's see, if raping and beating young Australian girls who do not cover their heads or their faces is sanctioned by God, maybe invading Iraq is as well.
Posted by: shelly at December 17, 2005 04:46 AM (6mUkl)
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December 11, 2005
Mike Wallace
An
interesting interview with the one-time legend, now cranky drooler, Mike Wallace appeared in Thursday's Boston Globe. The irony of Wallace's answers to the first couple of questions was funny.
Q. President George W. Bush has declined to be interviewed by you. What would you ask him if you had the chance?
A. What in the world prepared you to be the commander in chief of the largest superpower in the world? In your background, Mr. President, you apparently were incurious. You didn't want to travel. You knew very little about the military. . . . The governor of Texas doesn't have the kind of power that some governors have. . . . Why do you think they nominated you? . . . Do you think that has anything to do with the fact that the country is so [expletive] up?
Gee, i wonder why the President turned down an interview.
My first thought was that most of these questions could have been more appropriately directed to President Clinton, or President Carter while they were busy [expletive]-ing up the country in ways that our current President is now trying to fix.
And then, after showing what a blatantly biased hack he is, Wallace had the nerve to wonder why nobody cares about tv news anymore.
The days of Walter Cronkite and Huntley and Brinkley are gone. People still do watch, but it doesn't have the clout that it used to have. I don't know what's going to happen or if there will be an evening news 10 years from now.
Totally clueless.
Then Wallace is asked who he admired the most, out of all the people he's ever interviewed.
Martin Luther King. . . . Despite the gratitude he felt for what Lyndon Johnson did about relations between the races, Martin had the guts during the Vietnam War to say this is the wrong war, the wrong time, the wrong place.
That's unbelievable. Read it again, because the quote really gives us an insight into Wallace's mind.
Look at the choice of words: "gratitude" and "what Lyndon Johnson did." Wallace doesn't admire Martin Luther King for King's Civil Rights accomplishments. He clearly thinks those were gifts from the "great white father," LBJ.
Wallace thinks the most admirable thing about King was his opposition to the Vietnam War!
i don't know how anyone can gloss over King's great achievements, what he did to bring real voting rights, end segregation and Jim Crow, and change the way Americans think about themselves, and then say duhh, I liked him cuz he was anti-war.
Go away Mike Wallace, you had your day. Now you're just irritating.
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10:54 AM
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1
Graditude? LBJ's Great Society destroyed black families, destroyed our cities, and brought nothing but despair, deprivation and death to black people.
LBJ has gone to Hell because of the Great Society. Bill Moyers and Ramsey Clark will be there when they die for being a part of it. You can be sure that Martin Luther King himself blocked the gates of heaven when LBJ showed up.
Posted by: Jake at December 11, 2005 01:31 PM (r/5D/)
2
He's still alive?
I hope his son hasn't inherited all of his views.
Posted by: reagan80 at December 11, 2005 02:51 PM (K9tdw)
3
And yet he, and the other clueless old crustaceans like Dan Rather, still insist that there is no bias, even when he blatantly displays it in this interview.
The good thing is, in the words of Billy Bob Thorton, "I reckon the world will be soon quit of ya anyhow, uhhh huhhh."
Posted by: Kyle N at December 12, 2005 03:29 AM (g57xE)
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Ah yes, the second most famous of my fellow Brookline High School alumni (class of 18what?); it's rather an understatement to say I like Conan O'Brien better.
Posted by: Dave J at December 12, 2005 07:37 AM (8XpMm)
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Wallace's son has come out and said his dad is "losing it" and that there will be a competency hearing in the near future. LOL
Posted by: Ted at December 12, 2005 08:48 AM (blNMI)
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Here's the Newsmax blurb:
Breaking from NewsMax.com
Chris Wallace: Mike Wallace Has 'Lost It'
"Fox News Sunday" anchorman Chris Wallace says father Mike Wallace has "lost it" - after the legendary CBS newsman told the Boston Globe last week that the fact George Bush had been elected president shows America is "[expletive]-up."
"He's lost it. The man has lost it. What can I say," the younger Wallace lamented to WRKO Boston radio host Howie Carr on Friday.
"He's 87-years old and things have set in," the Fox anchor continued. "I mean, we're going to have a competence hearing pretty soon."
Posted by: shelly at December 12, 2005 10:28 AM (6mUkl)
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I seriously admire MLK for risking his life. MLK said the most scared he ever was was during a protest march in a town just outside Chicago(can't remember the town name). I've seen video of this march, and you can see the fear on MLK's face, and in his body language.
MLK went from that fearful experience, and pressed forward anyway - to a point where he knew the odds of his death were huge - Saddam judge odds. The night before he died, MLK basically predicted his own death, saying(paraphrasing from memory): "I may not get there(to the mountaintop) with you, but I'm not afraid to die." MLK was a giant.
Its instructive that MLK's private life betrayed human frailty in several areas. We can see that no man is perfect, and man achieves greatness despite his imperfections. A useful lesson. I also think of it when I hear black "leaders" disparage America's founders as "slave owners", amongst other things.
Posted by: gcotharn at December 12, 2005 02:49 PM (Rhyyb)
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rAYGUN,
I think your fears of Chris Wallace inheriting his fatherÂ’s views are misplaced. Clearly Chris hasn't inherited his fatherÂ’s basic decency. I find it abhorrent that he would denigrate his dad on the air, true or not, such talk about ones parents should remain private. That his politics led him to these filial transgressions tells us a great deal about young Wallace. Ray, could you imagine yourself humiliating your dad on TV because he is getting old and posits views you disagree with? What must be wrong with this kid? I have never seen him but given that rage passes for intellect on his network it is not surprising he found a job there.
Posted by: strawman at December 13, 2005 02:14 PM (0ZdtC)
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Strawman,
Did you extend the same courtesies to Mel Gibson while his father was in the news?
Posted by: reagan80 at December 13, 2005 03:34 PM (K9tdw)
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raY-
I answered this but our host thought to excericse her high moral standards and delete it. She is very sensitive about certain things:not the deaths of innocents and our GI's when she thinks it will protect her sorry ass but insult her religious beliefs and she rips the page out of the book and burns it. I think she might do well in the new Iraq where it looks as if there will be some serious thought control concerning things religious. Ah, freedom, somtimes you die for it, sometimes it dies for you.
Posted by: strawman at December 16, 2005 07:15 AM (0ZdtC)
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strawman,
You expect the "freedom" to come on someone's blog and insult their religion? I'm glad annika saw fit to exercise her freedom and delete your post. Maybe you will learn how to properly communicate with an equal. Your previous commentt about Chris Wallace was dead on the money about his unfortunate disrespect for his father, although I'm not sure why you think that pit bull Mike Wallace was a paragon of basic decency.
CBS hired Mike for his aggressiveness. I'm sure he has displayed basic decency often, but given the typical simplistic 60 Minutes good vs evil story lines he favored, I'd say his professional "standards" required him to allow his aggressiveness to override his basic decency on a regular basis. Basic decency would have required many more nuanced grey vs grey stories, rather than the pre-chewed yet hard-hitting habanero pablum 60 Minutes serves.
Maybe Chris Wallace inherited a lot more than you think.
Yours,
Wince
Posted by: Wince and Nod at December 16, 2005 09:43 AM (oOm0R)
12
wINCE-
MAybe he did.
Like I said, I have never heard the younger Wallace say a word let alone report a story. My response was simply to a son's bad behavior. AS you have agreed it is/was deplorable.
As for the elder, I watched my share of 60 min. episodes and like most people liked the black and white "expose the bad guys" premise. I don't have strong feeling about Mike one way or the other and what you say about his decisions to leave out the gray is most likely true. Gray does not make great TV. Producers are slaves to ratings points and not necessarily to truth.
As for my supposed insults of my hosts religion. I don't in fact know anything about Annika's religion other than she seems to believe in god but I don't think she has expressed any opinion about Jesus.
I think god was cleary left out of my post and Jesus was used more to skewer Mel than to defame the man himself. Not that defaming religious figures is a bad thing but it was not what occured in my post. Nor do I expect any "freedoms" here other than those extended by our host.
Religions don't belong to people, people belong to them and do it by choice and therefore may, from time to time, be asked to defend that choice or listen to satire about it. Religion is not an inherited immutable trait. It is a choice-some make it some don't, some think it is precious some think it ridiculous.
Posted by: strawman at December 16, 2005 11:29 AM (0ZdtC)
13
"I have never seen him but given that rage passes for intellect on his network it is not surprising he found a job there."
Fox News has never had to retract a major story. You silly libs can try to bad mouth Fox all you want, but it doesn't work. Fox's ratings continue to soar because people recognize even-handed journalism when they see it. After all, they have been forced to watch the blatantly left-wing blather since the days of that true American idiot, Walter Cronkite. The biggest distinction between Fox and its competitors is that when Fox programming is opinion-based, Fox doesn't try to hide the fact or pretend that they are being "neutral"----unlike say ABC, NBC, CNBC, CBS, PBS, NY Times, LA Times, etc, etc, etc.
Anyway, Strawman, keep up the inane posts. And, please do continue to disregard fact and careful analysis.
p.s It must have broken your socialist heart to see 11 million people experiencing freedom courtesey of George W. Bush. But then again your crew didn't want to fight the Nazis or the communists either. Why is it that the Left is constantly on the side of the enemy or waving a white flag?
Posted by: Blu at December 16, 2005 02:35 PM (V0cIv)
14
Hey Blu,
Is that the same kind of freedom they experience in Texas where your freedom loving criminal, DeLAy gerrymandered the vote to disenfranchise thousands of people and win 6 R seats? Why did ALL the lawyers in Justice vote to have TEx ass repeal the redistricting? They said it violated the voting rights act in a state that has it's voting procedures monitored since it was a constant violator of voting rights and yet the political ass lickers that mr iraqi freedom appointed ruled in favor of the redistricting? Is that the kind of freedom the Iraqi's have in their future? The Republican kind? I pity their sorry asses if they do.
I look forward to your evasion and obscuration you dumb fuck.
America's democracy would dissapear if left in the hands of the bush team. But schmucks like you would revel in the outcome because it would mean your side won and the constitution be damned.
And by the way, it was american communists who were the first Americans to fight Hitler:in Spain in 1936 you ignorant slug. Look it up - Lincoln Brigrade. The American communist party was always in the forefront of fighting fascism and the errosion of freedom in america. BTW, who was it that broke the back of the German army?
Posted by: strawman at December 16, 2005 03:42 PM (0ZdtC)
15
Bush = Hitler?
Neo-Cons = Nazis?
Hitler was part of the Right-wing of the Far Left.....
http://jonjayray.net*firms.com/hitler.html
Communists and Nazis are both Leftist groups. It isn't uncommon for Leftists to kill each other en masse over their minor differences: China vs. USSR, China vs. Vietnam, etc.
Churchill was the only WW2 leader truly representative of the Right side of the political spectrum.
NOTE: Remove the * and close the gap in "netfirms".
Posted by: reagan80 at December 16, 2005 04:01 PM (K9tdw)
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Ray,
I think you have lost your mind! Incoherent babel. Nazi's leftests? Bush=Chimp not nazi
Get a grip and call me in the morning.
Posted by: strawman at December 16, 2005 04:41 PM (0ZdtC)
17
Communists fighting the erosion of freedom? How absolutely fucking Orwellian. Are you kidding me? Communists and communisim are responsible for the death of more human beings that any idealogy in human history.
Hey, Strawman, maybe if you can get enough people into reeducation camps, your side might have a chance of winning an ideological battle. Your brothers in arms, the Khmer Rouge, loved this tactic. Hey, they were just fighting the erosion of freedom in Cambodia...right?
Posted by: blu at December 16, 2005 04:51 PM (V0cIv)
18
Blu,
LAst chance. Read a book.
What would you call the American COmmunists leadership in begining the fight to crush the spector of Nazi world domination?
Simple question.
Not to put too fine a point on terrible comparisons like most deaths cause in history, but I think if you look at all the carnage of WWII you might rethink your statement. Although nothing excuses any amounts of killing for any ideology and this makes the invasion of Iraq, the support of murderous dictators in South and Central America, the Spanish-American war, the invasion of Grenada, the invasion of Panama, the Dominican Invasion, and of course Vietnam look very similar to any number of occupations and supressions enacted by the Soviets. The only difference is we think we are justified and we thought the Soviets were not. Go figure. Capitalism's aggressive stance has, as long as you are keeping score, resulted in millions of deaths as well. Not numbers comprable to the Staninist era but plenty high and enough for you to keep your ignorant mouth closed since America is not a saintly presence on this planet. Just less black than others.
Posted by: strawman at December 17, 2005 09:18 AM (0ZdtC)
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There is not currently nor has there ever been a specific Capitalist ideology that has as a matter of both principal and policy advocated the slaughter of innocents. The same cannot be said for Communism (see Lenin). Capitalism has led to the freedom of millions while simultaneously leading to a progressively higher standard of living, quality of life, and significantly longer life span.
And are you kidding me about WWII? The Nazi's pale in comparison to the Communists of the 20th century. The numbers are not even close---even if you take the death count of both sides of WWII into account. The Communists spent an entire century murdering people by the millions all over the globe. It took the courage of liberal Capitalists to stop them. (I use "liberal" in its true form.) Regardless, the Nazi and the Communists are cut from the same cloth. Both ideologies lead to the same end: Totalitarianism. (See Hayek "The Road to Serfdom" or any of a number of economic and political historians.)
A bit a trivia for ya, Strawman: The term "Nazi" is Bavarian slang for simpleton. Apropos when trying to have a factual dialogue with a Leftist.
Posted by: Blu at December 17, 2005 12:23 PM (V0cIv)
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p.s. I should have noted that along with liberal Capitalists, Christianity also played a vital roll in wiping out the evil that is Communism. You ever wonder why Pope John Paul II and Ronald Reagan are heroes to the people of Eastern Europe?
Meanwhile, you're crew celebrates and makes heroes out of murderers like Castro, Ortega, and Gorbachev.
Our heroes say a lot about us: mine are Reagan, Churchill, and Pope John II (and I'm not even Catholic.) Liberators and lovers of freedom.
Posted by: Blu at December 17, 2005 12:32 PM (V0cIv)
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Blu,
Once again you don't answer the question but ramble on
Posted by: strawman at December 17, 2005 02:10 PM (0ZdtC)
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Strawman,
Actually, I don't ramble. My writing is fairly succinct.
Your side may have disdain for the National Socialists, but the Left's tactics would make Goebbles proud. In fact, I often think that Michael Moore is Goebbles reincarnated. Both filthy, disgusting pigs filled with hate who artfully spread deception.
But to your point: the American Communists fought against Fascism/Nazism not for any love of country or for Western values. Indeed, many were traitors and it's a shame that many, many more didnt' meet the fate of the Rosenberg's. As you well know--- because you are, after all, not dumb just willfully ignorant---the Nazi's/Fascists were killing Communists as fast as they could get their hands on them. Ironic that evil was killinig evil.
So, I guess that I am forced to admit that it is in some ways heroric that they were willing to stand-up for what they believed in despite the fact that what they were standing up for was/is the most evil and deadly ideology the world has ever known.
Posted by: Blu at December 17, 2005 05:13 PM (V0cIv)
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December 10, 2005
Tookie Prediction
Arnold is supposed to announce his Tookie decision today. He's not given me any reason to believe that he won't wimp out. i predict clemency.
Update: i would like to apologize now to Tookie Williams for predicting clemency. i should have known that i was probably jinxing his chances with the way my predictions have gone this year.
i suppose he can add me to the list of "motherfuckers" he warned at the end of his trial in 1981:
After the jury read their guilty verdict Williams, according to transcripts, looked to jurors and mouthed: 'I'm going to get each and every one of you motherf------.'
Nice guy. Good riddance.
Posted by: annika at
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I disagree. I heard him talking about how he was looking at all the evidence, staying up late (midnight!), and really thinking about it. In short, he was setting up the base for "I thought about it, but there is no reason to overrule a court of law".
Posted by: Pursuit at December 10, 2005 09:39 AM (n/TNS)
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If he wants to have ANY chance of reelection he'll execute Tookie.
I think the key whether Maria will continue to sleep with him...
Posted by: Becker at December 10, 2005 12:43 PM (VjgFz)
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I would fry him just to make sure I didnt have to sleep with Skeletor
Posted by: Kyle N at December 10, 2005 03:19 PM (QNul3)
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For obvious reasons, Annie, I hope your fears prove true -- but I suspect that in the end, he won't grant clemency.
Posted by: Hugo at December 10, 2005 05:35 PM (Yu24L)
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If he grants clemency, he will be hearing the term "girly man" applied to him forever.
I cannot believe that he will do that, especially after the number of appeals thaqt have been denied.
Posted by: shelly at December 10, 2005 05:52 PM (6mUkl)
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Mel Gibson for Governor!
Posted by: Thomas C. Wyld at December 11, 2005 02:45 AM (MpOzT)
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Arnold has made his decision; he's just waiting to see if it is OK with Maria.
Posted by: shelly at December 11, 2005 07:52 AM (6mUkl)
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El wrong-o!
So what's your MNF pick?
Posted by: Victor at December 12, 2005 01:08 PM (L3qPK)
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Well, Arnold finally made his decison known.
I guess he won't need to borrow Maria's bra and panties this week after all.
But, will Mike Farrell, Jamie Foxx or Snoop Doggy Dog ever talk to Arnold again?
I hope not.
Posted by: shelly at December 12, 2005 01:12 PM (6mUkl)
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Jamie Foxx is a great actor but a horrible racist. I heard him in a backstage video with the most hatefilled diatribe against whitey you would ever hear. I don't like double standards, I would not give a hoot in hell for a white racist, and I wont tolerate a black one either.
Posted by: Kyle N at December 12, 2005 02:55 PM (eKP3c)
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Looks like everyone of those Mother F*ckers got Tookie, rather than the other way around.
Bye-Bye Tookie, remember me to the Devil.
Posted by: shelly at December 13, 2005 03:31 AM (6mUkl)
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December 02, 2005
Another Anti-MSM Post
Ten Marines were killed by a roadside bomb near Fallujah today. This is tragic, obviously, and i'm exasperated that we haven't killed all them fuckers yet. But really, it only takes a couple of lowlifes to plant these bombs, and how many are
discovered and destroyed without killing anybody? Yet everytime the enemy gets lucky, the anti-war media (who are on the side of the enemy) use the event to hammer another wedge into our resolve.
Here, Reuters Foundation Alertnet (i'm not sure what that is, but their slogan seems to be "Alerting Humanitarians to Emergencies," whatever that means.) chose to highlight the latest casualties by celebrating some past terrorist successes in Iraq.
Surprise, people die in a war. Civilians die. Soldiers die. Marines die. It's how wars are fought and won and lost. i understand the political reasons for not focusing attention on enemy body counts. It wasn't really a good indicator in Vietnam either. But i do detect a little bit of glee in these left wing media outlets, whenever some of ours die. How about a little perspective? How about a list of the "Deadliest Incidents" for the terrorists since we began kicking their asses over there? That list would be much longer.
But since the media is on the side of the enemy, they wouldn't want to publicize anything that might hurt enemy morale, or boost our own.
Update: Not all of the media is on the side of the enemy. Thank goodness for the exceptions.
Via Sarah.
Posted by: annika at
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Last time i say a number of terrorists killed, it showed that we killed 40 of theirs to each one of our deaths.
Posted by: Jake at December 02, 2005 10:26 AM (r/5D/)
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I like to remember the burden that Lincoln carried until July 4th 1863 when the Union won two major battles in one day, Gettysburg & Vicksburg. Until then all of the war news had been damned ugly for the yankees. As you know, Lincoln didn't think that he was going to win the election of 1864, and it was the overwhelming support of the Army that put him back in office.
Posted by: Casca at December 02, 2005 11:55 AM (y9m6I)
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Don't kid yourself about the MSM being in some kind of deep woo-woo conspiracy. They just don't have the time. Last quarter Knight-Ridder implemented yet another 15% cutback on staffing in newsrooms. Next quarter, they're looking at a $350 mill cutback to please Wall Street while they try to unload their media properties.
This, after years of already cutting staffs to the bone. Reporters no longer do any actual reporting. They don't have the time. They are churning out "content" (as opposed to news) as fast as they can or they are out the door. So whatever it is that appears in the MSM is something that came straight up from a news source ... in this case, from a Pentagon spokesman.
Any detection of "glee" is on you - you don't have to try to call the families of the people killed to get a comment from them. Reporting on people dying is a lot like having to be the guy that comes to the house with the bible in hand to break the news to the next of kin. There's nothing gleeful about it. But it has to be done. The stories about the soldiers killed are the last notices that these men and women will get in this world. Would it be better to just ignore them, pretend that they don't even exist? How much of a Big Deal do you or do you not make about the ultimate sacrifice, the final price that American servicemen pay?
Posted by: Wordyeti at December 02, 2005 01:25 PM (4UTOj)
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Wordyeti:
Maybe there is no conspiracy, but the results are the same in the media because they have black listed conservatives for the last 25 years.
Plus the media executives currently in power were all radicalized by the Vietnam War. This war made them hate Americans, America and the military.
They only hired people who believed in advocacy journalism. Thus suppressing or distorting the news was acceptable as long as the end result brought the left to power.
You say that the Wall Street is forcing these layoffs. No it is the customers that are forcing these layoffs. The customers are tired of having every page of the newspaper insulting their intelligence by engaging in news suppression and distortion. They are tired of seeing every news story looking like an editorial. Their contempt for media people is reflected in the polls as well as their refusal to buy a contemptible product.
The people who work in the media have only themselves to blame. They put out a product that people were not stupid enough to buy. The free market has spoken, and it has kicked media in the ass to the applause of hundreds of millions of people.
Posted by: Jake at December 02, 2005 05:48 PM (r/5D/)
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The reason Iraq War coverage is such crap has to do with a multitude of causes working together: pack journalism, entrenched bias, the generally low IQ of most journalists, laziness, cowardice, and lack of resources brought on by selling a mediocre product in an era of intense competition.
Posted by: annika at December 02, 2005 08:15 PM (7JUtv)
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Nothing sexier than a smart blond.
Posted by: Casca at December 03, 2005 08:53 AM (qBTBH)
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Annika,
Not to disuade CASCA form his fantasies about you but sexy as you may be, it's you IQ that is in doubt when you suggest that the opponants of this criminal involvement in Iraq are rooting for the enemy (who ever that may be since Iraq was never actually the ememy until the MSM said it 10,000 times) Yours is a simplistic, unlearned approach to a difficult dilema. How do good, well meaning people-people who cherish this country and all that it has stood for, watch as their forces are sent to do unspeakable things (things you casually call fighting a war) to a country that, although run by a terribel dictator we loved for a while, are decent people cought in the cross hairs of a dimwitted mis-directed foreign policy administrated by liars, crooks and cluless neo-consertative ideologues whosw agenda has yet to be unearthed. You my dear would do well to stop the silly knee jerk conservative mouthing of the baseless underpinnings and biases against the media and smell the coffee, get serious about caring for our soldiers, our national security and stature. All are suffering with this policy and dumb belief that these "insurgents" are anything other than the by-product of our intervention.
Posted by: strawman at December 03, 2005 12:38 PM (0ZdtC)
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Annika,
You, my dear, would do well to stop mouthing your silly unprogressive views and go back to working in the kitchen while us liberal adults try to lead the nation to greatness and fight for your gender's rights, or you can at least wait in my bedroom to do something more...ahem...productive until you start re-affirming the proper views that we share, little lady.
Remember, we're the ones that respect women and minorities the most.
Posted by: Spanky at December 03, 2005 09:45 PM (K9tdw)
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Interesting note that never seems to be mentioned in the news: Major K in his blog notes this about US forces:
"(We) have been asked to supervise or arbitrate at every level from neighborhood to national repeatedly... Whether Sunni, Shia or Kurd, the presence of Americans at neighborhood council meetings, disputes and detention facilities is not only favored, but is often greeted with a sigh of relief. The Iraqis know they will get fair treatment from us because ethnic group, tribal affiliation and political power do not weigh upon our measurement of justice. "
http://strengthandhonor.typepad.com/captaink/2005/11/the_honest_brok.html
He also notes:
"This brings two things to mind. Firstly, the average Iraqi will often (not always) trust us more than other Iraqis outside of their family when it comes to fair and humane treatment. Secondly, for all of the people at home and in the media (my emphasis, not Major K's)
that think we are such a widely hated and mistrusted "occupying force," I would like to know why they think the Iraqis hate their honest broker.
Also, the troops have the same complaint Annika does about the news folks:
"As one Marine put it, it's like if I spent $7.99 for a slice of pizza and the headlines the next day read, "Marine Out Eight Bucks!"
http://media.nationalreview.com/082793.asp
Wordyeti: In all due respect, no one's ever suggested that the media ignore US casualty reportage. Those are indeed important; we must konw what's happening. All many of us have asked for is balance and perspective, such as reportage of the successes, the safe areas (yes, they do exist), the Iraqis who
do trust the US presence (see Major K's link above). That's all.
Posted by: E.M.H. at December 04, 2005 08:42 AM (Ynd4F)
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Spanky,
My dear boy, I think it is pretty weird that you suggest that I have transgressed some PC boundary or violated the feminist credo of my liberal masters by the use of the simply condescending "my dear” while the men on this blog are sniffing around Annika's feet looking to dress her in Blahnik's, refer to themselves as "her bitch" (Mr. macho Casca) and I believe have affectionately called her "little lady" in the context of her shooting fetish and you have a problem with me? Let's also not forget that our hostess engages in a little painted toe wiggling of her own.
Not for nothing, the fact that you choose to address this possible slight to our host, as we discuss the sickening slide into anarchy occurring in Iraq and the death of 10 more Marines is indicative of something far sicker in your core than my PC-lessness.
Posted by: strawman at December 04, 2005 11:08 AM (0ZdtC)
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Hey, I'm not disagreeing with you. Iraq is a chaotic mess and we need to get out of there as soon as possible. It will also be good for our cause(which is ultimately good for America) when we can keep pointing at the epitome of the unprogressives' failure in Iraq for the next few decades of elections.
No one will ever think about putting a conservative into nationally-elected office again when everyone sees terror attacks originating from Iraq on our soil. We will clean up the Repubs' mess and bring greatness to our fellow countrymen for generations. We will finally restore our nation's reputation and bring back the good feelings from overseas towards our country. It will be a wonderful world.
Posted by: Spanky at December 04, 2005 02:45 PM (K9tdw)
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Sapnky,
WOnderful world may be a bit of a stretch but I'll settle for throwing the scum out.
Posted by: strawman at December 05, 2005 11:18 AM (0ZdtC)
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Send them bombs not boys. Kind of hard to have a road side attack on B-52.
Posted by: Eddythedancingbear at December 05, 2005 04:27 PM (6LC0Q)
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December 01, 2005
MSM Non-Story Of The Week
i'm telling you, i'm perplexed by the media.
Why is this a story?Since early this year, the Information Operations Task Force in Baghdad has used Lincoln Group to plant stories in the Iraqi media that trumpet the successes of U.S. and Iraqi troops against insurgents, U.S.-led efforts to rebuild Iraq, and rising anti-insurgent sentiment among the Iraqi people, according to senior military officials and documents obtained by The Times.
So they paid the Iraqi editors to run the stories. So f-ing what. Why is this controversial? Why is this a bad thing? There's a war going on. i guess its only controversial if you don't care who wins. Or if you want the good guys to lose.
Posted by: annika at
08:19 PM
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The MSM prints all the Pro-terrorist propaganda they can get for free. If you want Anti-terrorist propaganda printed, you have to pay for it.
Go figure.
Posted by: Jake at December 01, 2005 08:25 PM (r/5D/)
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Sheesh, you obviously don't get it. In the US media there is only the dogged pursuit of truth, and they're never swayed by tawdry influences like money and power. Yes the media whores are SHOCKED! Yes, SHOCKED!! That other media whores are taking money.
Sixty minutes MUST do a story on this. All I can think of is Joe Kennedy paying Luce $75k to put JFK's pic on the cover of Time.
Posted by: Casca at December 01, 2005 09:13 PM (qBTBH)
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I'm encouraged by this. We need to spend MORE MONEY planting stories!! Every dollar we spend likely reduces necessary military and saves military lives in the near future; and saves homeland American lives in the long term.
Posted by: gcotharn at December 01, 2005 09:45 PM (nD6Iu)
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None of you guys get it.
All of the money paid to advance America's image in Iraq should have been sent to places like New Orleans so the Mayor could use it to build bridges to the gambling boats and degrade the levees.
Or, it could have gone to other useful projects like the independent counsel investigating who exposed Valerie Plame, besides her husband. Come to think of it, why isn't he indicted?
Posted by: shelly at December 01, 2005 10:22 PM (6mUkl)
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OK, start putting a little water in the scotch now, and only take a half a prozac at a time.
Posted by: Casca at December 01, 2005 10:39 PM (qBTBH)
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Annika, the MSM do want the good guys to win, but to them its the terrorists who are the good guys. Most of them are still living in the 1960's. Our military is always to blame, and the evil rethuglicans, and those damm fundies, and "Big" corporations, and anyone who dosent want killers to be set free, ect.
What you thought they had changed?
Posted by: Kyle N at December 02, 2005 03:14 AM (hfnvK)
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I find it unbelievably funny that the MSM carry water for the bad guys. What heads do they think will be sawn off should the bad guys win? I guess they don't think the terrorists will ever get here, or if they do, they'll skip the New York Times, because after all it's not like we're
prejudiced or anything...
Yeah, I know, Bush lied, and besides Saddam never attacked America... Hitler never attacked America either, but maybe we should have waited until Britain fell. Look, we tried the Jimmy Carter way - turn the other cheek. All that did was embolden the fanatics. American interests were attacked, repeatedly, with no effective response until Afghanistan. Now, we are going to cry about somebody else getting paid to run stories?
If Bush found a cure for cancer tomorrow, the left would complain it cost tooo much and took too long.
Most of the MSM is on the side of the enemy.
Posted by: MarkD at December 02, 2005 04:54 AM (oQofX)
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Actually, in tha Arab world it's not uncommon to pay to get stories published in the newspaper. It's kind of a way of life.
Posted by: DR at December 02, 2005 06:23 AM (2iVD6)
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Shit DR, what airy fairy paradise do you live in? It's common practice the world over, as they say, "money talks". If truth could be found in the MSM, there'd be no blogosphere. As Bork said of snarlin' arlin, "I know the man. There is no truth in him."
Posted by: Casca at December 02, 2005 06:32 AM (y9m6I)
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November 22, 2005
The Next Weapons Controversy?
The NE round.[I]t is a thermobaric mixture which ignites the air, producing a shockwave of unparalleled destructive power, especially against buildings.
A post-action report from Iraq describes the effect of the new weapon: 'One unit disintegrated a large one-storey masonry type building with one round from 100 meters. They were extremely impressed.' Elsewhere it is described by one Marine as 'an awesome piece of ordnance.'
It proved highly effective in the battle for Fallujah. This from the Marine Corps Gazette, July edition: 'SMAW gunners became expert at determining which wall to shoot to cause the roof to collapse and crush the insurgents fortified inside interior rooms.'
. . .
[I]t’s understandable that the Marines have made so little noise about the use of the SMAW-NE in Fallujah. But keeping quiet about controversial weapons is a lousy strategy, no matter how effective those arms are. In the short term, it may save some bad press. In the long term, it’s a recipe for a scandal. Military leaders should debate human right advocates and the like first, and then publicly decide 'we do/do not to use X'. Otherwise when the media find do find out – as they always do -- not only do you get a level of hysteria but there is also the charge of 'covering up.'
[The author is] undecided about thermobarics myself, but I think they should let the legal people sort out all these issues and clear things up. Otherwise you get claims of 'chemical weapons' and 'violating the Geneva Protocol.' Which doesn't really help anyone. The warfighter is left in doubt, and it hands propaganda to the bad guys. Just look at what happened it last weekÂ’s screaming over white phosphorous rounds.
Lawyers? Disproportionate force? Don't some of these same people want us to send 400,000 troops to Iraq. It's crazy. Do whatever works, i say.
In 1991 it was electric filaments that were inhumane. And they didn't even kill anybody. This time it's the white phosphorous nonsense. Nobody ever mentions that we used white phosphorous in World War II. If it wasn't for WP, it would have taken us much longer to break out of hedgerow country after D-Day. The world would be a different place, let me tell you.
Remember what Dupont said (or was it Monsanto?): "Without chemicals, life itself would be impossible."
Via commenter Shelly.
Posted by: annika at
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Sweeeet. I always thought the SMAW was a great piece of gear. One of the things that makes it so great is that, because it's not disposable, it's very flexible. Just select the ammo that suits your purpose. (It used to be that they were developing an anti-tank round for the SMAW that, as I recall, was going to have terminal effects comparable to a Dragon AT missile. That's pretty darned good, and it'd give the infantry company a serious organic anti-tank capability -- albeit one of very limited range. I don't know it it ever came to fruition.)
As to the legal mumbo-jumbo, I've always found people who suffer the delusion that it's possible to civilize killing to be very annoying. It just ain't, except on the margins. It's one thing to say that it's not OK to conduct massed air or artillery strikes on civilian population centers (although we've certainly done that). It's quite another to say that although you can kill an enemy combatant in a war zone using Method A, you can't kill him using Method B -- even though Method B will save American lives, and its only additional collateral effects beyond Method A are upon inanimate objects. What's an American serviceman's life worth?
I frankly find the whole concept of international law more or less laughable, given that most of it is of questionable legitimacy and is largely unenforceable except against the weakest states.
Posted by: Matt at November 23, 2005 04:50 AM (mHo+T)
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A few words from the good Colonel are in order:
We must kill them. We must incinerate them. Pig after pig. Cow after cow. Village after village. Army after army
It's impossible for words to describe what is necessary to those who do not know what horror means. Horror. Horror has a face, and you must make a friend of horror. Horror and moral terror are your friends. If they are not, then they are enemies to be feared. They are truly enemies.
We make them drop fire on people, but we won't let them write FUCK! on the sides of their airplanes.
I've seen the horrors, horrors that you've seen. But you have no right to call me a murderer. You have a right to kill me, you have a right to do that, but you have no right to judge me.
-
Colonel Walter E. Kurtz
Posted by: Casca at November 23, 2005 06:44 AM (y9m6I)
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alk about the left fishing for an issue.
If thermobaric mixture is a chemical weapon then gunpowder is one too.
One must remember that the more destructive the weapon, the more of a deterrent it is to the enemy. It might be a reason Al Qaida is avoiding combat with us. Instead, they have switched to blowing up women and children and setting land mines for our troops.
Posted by: Jake at November 23, 2005 07:09 AM (r/5D/)
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Casca,
That boy of yours still at OCS? A former boss of mine just put his eldest through Boot Camp; the kid (I still think of him as a kid; he was only 11 or 12 last time I saw him) just received his 0311 MOS and is now awaiting orders to, most likely, 1st Mar Div -- and from there, very probably, on to one sandbox or another. Whew. Did you know they're giving the Recon indoc at SOI now? He's waiting to learn whether they want him.
Posted by: Matt at November 23, 2005 08:06 AM (10G2T)
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Week Seven and doing well. WTF, I'm a good teacher.
Here is my young idiot.
I told him that a sure way to get his pic taken is to flash a shit-eating grin whenever he saw a camera, because nobody else would be smiling. Give them something different, and people will notice. Lord willing and the river don't rise, he'll be commissioned 16 December.
Posted by: Casca at November 23, 2005 08:58 AM (y9m6I)
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There's a simple solution for the white flag crowd objecting to weapons like these that save American lives; just let them take the point on the next house assault without this kind of support.
Great pic, Casca. If the kid is lucky, he'll get sent to Gitmo where he can meet my beautiful niece is who will coincidentally make 03 in December. She's NI, and has had two trips to the Gulf already, including the first dustup.
If he'd not, he'll get a trip to Fallujah. Is that pic at Lejune or Quantico?
Don't know the line yet, but bet the Red on December 3. Bruins have a good passer but no running game, which makes them easier to defend.
Posted by: shelly at November 24, 2005 03:56 AM (6mUkl)
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Right down where the Chopawamsic Creek joins the Potomac, where the mud smells like pig shit in old Quanitco.
Actually, Gitmo isn't a great place to be if you're a Marine. He'll go to school for most of the next year, then a fleet tour for two or three years, then to MCRD San Diego hopefully, where he'll figure out that he should be working in bio-tech on Sorrento Ridge and on his PhD at UCSD.
Posted by: Casca at November 24, 2005 07:00 AM (qBTBH)
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Kidding aside, if your kid is looking for a great bio-tech education, he needs to take a close look at USC. Eli Broad, who unlike George Soros uses his billions to make eduction and arts a lot better, has decided that too many kids are graduating from Cal Tech, UCLA and USC and leaving the area. So after getting USC to spend a hundred mil on a hundred new top professors, he wants to build the nations top bio-tech park up where the County now has its outdated juvenile hall detention facility and court.
The have J.K. McKay (remember him as the guy who made Pat Hayden look good?)as the head of the project. This will happen in the next few years.
Besides which, they have a dynasty going and Pete Carroll may be on his tenth straight national championship by then. Hell, they may even have a defense by then.
Posted by: shelly at November 25, 2005 02:40 AM (6mUkl)
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Fine looking soldier. If the enemy sees that grin, they will surely turn and run.
Posted by: gcotharn at November 26, 2005 10:53 AM (DzM4H)
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Jeez, I just followed the trackback, and had a vivid recollection of the teachings of my youth, where I was taught to, "Blind 'em, Burn 'em, and Blast 'em!"
What that means of course is to chuck some smoke grenades up by a fortified position so that they can't see you, then get your flame thrower dude to crawl up where he can squirt jellied gasoline through the observation ports, while some young stud with a satchel charge runs up and throws it on top or inside the position, either will do.
I much prefer the smaw.
Posted by: Casca at November 26, 2005 05:30 PM (qBTBH)
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Deafening Silence
Is it me, or is the blogosphere deafeningly silent on
this story. i think it's huge, no matter which side you're on.
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I think it's common knowledge that we'll be withdrawing most of our forces next year. Generally, I think the whole situation is just a pain in the ass. Hopefully these folks can keep what freedom has been given to them. Unfortunately, it's been my experience when you GIVE someone something, they generally don't respect it.
Posted by: Jason H at November 22, 2005 02:14 PM (jTuRA)
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Since I'm too lazy to write on my own site and too nice not to appease your call for increasing the Iraq-U.S. rhetoric I'll share my thoughts here. Even though what I want to talk about is Chavez and how he's supposed to be a hero for saving each family in some part of Connecticut 20 bucks this winter.
Here's the problem, if you're trying to get out of any situation before you're ready and you have no way of determining when it is you would actually be ready to leave the situation then you are almost always going to leave at the wrong time. This inability to know what the rules are for leaving is indicative of a very low level of self understanding.
America didn't set a clear agenda for why they should be in Iraq. OK there was one but it was based on lies, then we had the altruistic one where we went over there to free people. Now we are faced with a huge bill for our middle east romp and want some type of assurance this isn't going to sink our ship, and I mean both terrorist wise and economically.
The world is full relationships between lovers that end over petty issues and others that are reconciled even through horrendous circumstances. The reason this is such a common aspect of life is b/c people take very little time to figure out who they are. America is going through the same type of identity crisis. Do we want the money or to spread freedom? Either way itÂ’s imperialistic.
If we, the most efficient and productive country out there, can so easily get things wrong (and perhaps our intention are the reason), and continue to do so, why should we ever expect the same people that signed on to live in despair in the first place to do any better. I say expect the worst and applaud anything to the contrary. When it comes to getting out letÂ’s at least figure out what we expect in return for taking on this war b/c either way you look at the present situation in Iraq you know there are millions of people (Kurds) better off.
Posted by: Mike Lorenzo at November 22, 2005 03:05 PM (+f3EY)
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The worst thing about the blogosphere is the infinite supply of know-it-alls. They offend those of us who do.
Posted by: Casca at November 22, 2005 03:13 PM (qBTBH)
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I'm interested how this story will be spun. Its still fresh, and MSM maybe hasn't decided how to play it.
If the Iraqi Gov't wanted coalition forces out quickly, the resolution would've clearly given an timeframe - which it does not.
The language re "resistance is legitimate" appears designed to give Sunnis cover to come into the political process.
This resolution is really just posturing - buts its posturing which is good news for the Coalition and the pro democracy forces in Iraq. In a shame society, the Sunnis need a way to come into the political process and still save face.
Posted by: gcotharn at November 22, 2005 03:44 PM (hRTH6)
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It's understandable. Bush's response should be for the Iraquis to come up with a timetable. My guess is they will be cautious.
Posted by: kyle at November 22, 2005 05:19 PM (ZwehH)
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Oh, ohohohohoh! I just remembered my favo political quote. From Krushchev, don't you know: "Politicians are the same everywhere... always trying to build a bridge where there is no river."
They're maumauing for their audience. Like our politicians, life is better when one pays them little attention.
Posted by: Casca at November 22, 2005 05:40 PM (qBTBH)
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There's a big difference between Iraqis deciding among themselves and with others concerned about the well-being of the Iraqi people when the United States Armed Forces ought to begin withdrawing soldiers, and grandstanding American Senators and House Representatives doing the same with the singular motive of exploiting dwindling support for the Battle in Iraq in order to curry favor in 2006/2008.
Good for the Iraqis, I say. I agree with the above, however--we'll be pulling out troops next year, anyway. Even anti-war Democrats know that, and that is precisely the reason they are trying so desperately to provoke the administration into bickering with them. They merely want to be able to take credit for the troop redeployment when it does occur.
It is quite shamefull, really.
(By the way, this is the first time I've visited your blog--it's very nice. Came by way of a link to one of your posts about thrashing the fools that believe Clinton was a smarter President than Jefferson. Bravo, bravo. I'll be visiting again.)
Posted by: Postmodern Pundit at November 22, 2005 05:50 PM (Gnyy5)
Posted by: Postmodern Pundit at November 22, 2005 05:51 PM (Gnyy5)
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thank you Postmodern Pundit.
Posted by: annika at November 22, 2005 06:04 PM (Y6GAC)
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America didn't set a clear agenda for why they should be in Iraq. OK there was one but it was based on lies, then we had the altruistic one where we went over there to free people.
Mike - I'm sure you have read the National Security Strategy, President Bush's address to the UN (Sep 12, 2002), 2d inauguration speech, and various state of the union addresses. If you have, I'm sure you could provide a more thoughtful retort than repeating the ten second leftist soundbites or perhaps offer any original criticism.
America is going through the same type of identity crisis. Do we want the money or to spread freedom? Either way itÂ’s imperialistic.
The question is what should America do as the sole superpower after the end of the Cold War? Turn isolationist? Take a realist view that the world is a zero-sum game of power and focus only on maintaing US hegemony? The Clinton Administration essentially passed on answering this question.
This Administration has at least put forth a grand strategy. The notion our national interest and values are the same. Democratic values can work elsewhere and in turn make the world a more peaceful place - harkening back to Wilsonian days.
I don't think that use of American power is imperialistic, especially compared to the strategies the Romans or British employed. Perhaps some may view the ideological primacy of the strategy as arrogant. But if you view the use of American power as imperialistic, the question remains - what's the alternative? The UN? Reliance on European nations? Chaos?
I agree with gcotharn and others. The MSM should focus on the various groups achieving consensus in the political arena. The announcement is posturing, but given the country (most of the region) has only a history of authoritarian regimes, it's a positive sign of cooperation.
Posted by: Col Steve at November 23, 2005 01:03 AM (NvUmm)
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Steve,
Lifting a tyranny in an artificial country comprised of ethnic groups who loathe one another has unintended, if seemingly obvious consequences. If anyone was paying attention, the break-up of Yugoslavia should've taught us that.
Look, I was all for taking Saddam out and I support doing so again. However, it appears that the President is operating under some Wilsonian delusion that establishing a democracy will teach the world to sing in perfect harmony. In this, George W. Bush is Rodney King with a worse tan. And both of them would have known better had they looked at this history closely.
I don't think that the United States is imperalistic either. To suggest otherwise is to misunderstand the term. And Wisonianism would be magnificent now if only it worked the first time. Wilsonianism is the same school of thought that gave us such smashing successes as the League of Nations, Yugoslavia and Iraq in the first place.
The world is still paying the price for Woodrow Wilson's presidency. I'm not entirely sure that this is the time to put a down payment on Round Two.
On another note, I remember President Clinton promising in September of 1996 that American forces would be out of Bosnia by that Christmas. The last time I checked, they're still there - 9 years later.
Hey, turns out that Clinton lied about more than blowjobs after all.
Posted by: skippystalin at November 23, 2005 02:29 PM (ohSFF)
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So what happens if an Iraqi official in a public capacity says, "Get out, Yankee swine?"
Posted by: Ontario Emperor at November 24, 2005 09:49 PM (CPqpw)
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November 21, 2005
"Boogie To Baghdad"
As far as i am concerned, there was one main reason Iraq was a serious threat to the United States. It's why Saddam Hussein had to go, and it's why Iraq needed to be turned into a U.S. friendly democracy.
The reason was, in the words of Richard Clarke, "Boogie to Baghdad." Byron York wrote about it in his most recent column:
In case you donÂ’t remember, 'Boogie to Baghdad' is the phrase that Richard Clarke, when he was the top White House counterterrorism official during the Clinton administration, used to express his fear that if American forces pushed Osama bin Laden too hard at his hideout in Afghanistan, bin Laden might move to Iraq, where he could stay in the protection of Saddam Hussein.
ClarkeÂ’s opinion was based on intelligence indicating a number of contacts between al Qaeda and Iraq, including word that Saddam had offered bin Laden safe haven.
ItÂ’s all laid out in the Sept. 11 commission report. 'Boogie to Baghdad' is on Page 134.
i checked, skeptical person that i am. Here's the relevant quote from the
Final Report of the National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States:
In February 1999, [CIA assistant director for collection, Charles] Allen proposed flying a U-2 mission over Afghanistan to build a baseline of intelligence outside the areas where the tribals had coverage. [Richard] Clarke was nervous about such a mission because he continued to fear that Bin Ladin might leave for someplace less accessible. He wrote Deputy National Security Advisor Donald Kerrick that one reliable source reported Bin Ladin's having met with Iraqi officials, who 'may have offered him asylum.' Other intelligence sources said that some Taliban leaders, though not Mullah Omar, had urged Bin Ladin to go to Iraq. If Bin Ladin actually moved to Iraq, wrote Clarke, his network would be at Saddam Hussein's service, and it would be 'virtually impossible' to find him. Better to get Bin Ladin in Afghanistan, Clarke declared. Berger suggested sending one U-2 flight, but Clarke opposed even this. It would require Pakistani approval, he wrote; and 'Pak[istan's] intel[ligence service] is in bed with' Bin Ladin and would warn him that the United States was getting ready for a bombing campaign: 'Armed with that knowledge, old wily Usama will likely boogie to Baghdad.' Though told also by Bruce Riedel of the NSC staff that Saddam Hussein wanted Bin Ladin in Baghdad, Berger conditionally authorized a single U-2 flight. Allen meanwhile had found other ways of getting the information he wanted. So the U-2 flight never occurred.
Interesting.
We wanted to send a spy plane over Afghanistan, but Richard Clarke was afraid (probably with good reason) that the Pakistanis would tip Osama off, and he'd get spooked and leave Afghanistan.
Please note what Richard Clark did not say:
He did not say, "At least we don't need to worry about Osama going to Iraq, because as everybody knows, Osama and Saddam hate each other, Osama being a religious fundamentalist, and Saddam being a secular infidel."
The argument that Saddam and Osama would never have cooperated is not only factually incorrect, it's naïve. People who hate each other form partnerships all the time. Look at most marriages. No, seriously, what about Hitler and Stalin, Stalin and Churchill, Herzog and Kinski, Bill and Hillary, Ungar and Madison, Owens and McNabb?
The whole WMD argument is a red herring. The administration thought it was their "ace in the hole" when they were trying to make the case before the U.N. Now the anti-war movement thinks it's their "ace-in-the-hole." i never bought into the WMD argument, either way.
The flypaper argument is similarly weak. It's only a part of the puzzle. Alone, it makes a poor justification for the war. The main reason we needed to get rid of Saddam, and make Iraq into an ally instead of an enemy, was "Boogie to Baghdad."
The advantages to both parties would have made a Saddam-Osama partnership inevitable, especially after we kicked butt in Afghanistan. Therefore, it was a strategic necessity to remove the possibility of that partnership. We achieved that goal, and that's a fact that people tend to forget.
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There was a laundrylist of reasons to bust a cap in So'damn Insanes ass. Ultimately the nation and the worlds interests are served by a stable mideast, and So'damn was the punk of the month. I mean, where were we going to make our point? Iran? Saudi?
One does what one can.
Posted by: Casca at November 21, 2005 08:46 PM (qBTBH)
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Geopolitical location was key to Iraq being the target. They are smack dab in the middle of everything there, and Saddam gave us the perfect excuse to do him. He dared Bush to do him.
Betcha he still can't figure out that Rice and Rummy and Bush are not Sandy Burglar and Hillary and Bill. Well, maybe he can; he had a lot of time in the rathole to consider the difference.
Posted by: shelly at November 22, 2005 02:58 AM (6mUkl)
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Thank you Shelly and Casca,
It's so plainly obvious why Iraq was geopolitically perfect for a campaign to bring stability and hope to the Middle East, and it's so very refreshing hearing it from someone else.
It's frustrating seeing the left pigeon-hole themselves into complete ignorance by speaking out against it. It's tatamount to giving the insurgency, Al-Qaeda, and terrorism the green light to continue their campaign of violence when what they really need to see is a solid American stance on the issue. They need to see America facing down extremism with the tenacity of a wolverine. The left is so counter-productive it makes me sick.
What alternatives did the left give us? Oh that's right, none. We would have been sitting here at home doing nothing to combat radical islam, allowing it to fester until the threat was too large to face down. The Middle East was the problem, and Iraq is the starting point for bringing about change there. Every other country there was absolutely out of the question in terms of military action, Iraq was it. Period.
The left got us into this mess (read 2 terms of Bill Clinton) by not nipping Osama in the bud when he could have. Instead he just hoped for the best. I'm glad we are now taking a proactive approach in this war on terror and pray that the left does not regain control of the government because that will mean millions of lives will hang in the balance.
Posted by: Rob at November 22, 2005 06:00 AM (wJxri)
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Wee Kim Wee agrees with all of you.
Wee Kim Wee, former president of Singapore said in a Forbes Magazine article:
Al QaidaÂ’s reason for attacking us was to get us out of the Middle East. Iraq is the key to their plans and that is why they are so desperate to win in Iraq.
Once we are gone from the Middle East Al Qaida will establish a Taliban-type country that encompasses all the oil-producing nations of that region.
That Taliban nation will then cut off the oil supply to the Western World. Millions of us will die starvation as there will be no way to transport food to the people.
Wee Kim Wee says that the Western World cannot rest until every member of Al Qaida is dead. I agree.
Wee's statements are backed up in a recent letter intercepted from Zarqawi. Zarqawi emphasized to his troops that if Iraq is lost their dreams of ruling the Middle East are lost.
Posted by: Jake at November 22, 2005 06:26 AM (r/5D/)
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Here is another reason Saddam had to go. Saddam had bought off high government officials in the following countries.
Russia
France
Canada
Belgium
Germany
It is no coincidence that these countries were the most vocal in condemning the US for liberating Iraq. Saddam received value for his money. His money also bought him illegal weapons and materials from these countries. Thus Saddam avoided any sanctions the UN put on his country and would continue to do so in the future.
Posted by: Jake at November 22, 2005 06:38 AM (r/5D/)
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Annika perfectly encapsulates the short game - with the addendum that we may well someday have proof that Saddam was involved in terror attacks inside the U.S. Possibilities include
OKC(according to Jayna Davis),
Flight 800(off Long Island - according to Jack Cashill), and
9/11(pilots may have been Iraqi - according to Laurie Myroie).
Strategically, I respect the neccessity of the long game. I'm 100% behind the "root causes" strategic rationale for invading Iraq.
Defeating Osama ultimately means defeating his movement, which is fueled by an hellish alliance between tribal shame cultures and the "look backwards/anti-progress" aspects of radical Islam.
Posted by: gcotharn at November 22, 2005 11:45 AM (hRTH6)
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Oh, I forgot the biggest possible Saddam terror attack inside the U.S.: 1993 WTC - evidence being Ramsi Yousef(who also was connected to the Bojinka plot to blow up U.S. passengers planes midflight).
I remember Saddam, after Gulf War I, publicly declaring that he would have his revenge against America. Think about that: Saddam made a prominent, public declaration that he would bring harm to the U.S. For that declaration alone, Saddam deserves to die, all other arguments are moot. We have the right to self-defense.
Posted by: gcotharn at November 22, 2005 11:53 AM (hRTH6)
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Notwithstanding the attempted assassination of GHWB.
One should also take in the editorial page of today's W$J, which connects Atta to Iraqi Intelligence.
Posted by: Casca at November 22, 2005 03:21 PM (qBTBH)
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"The argument that Saddam and Osama would never have cooperated is not only factually incorrect, it's naïve. People who hate each other form partnerships all the time. Look at most marriages. No, seriously, what about Hitler and Stalin, Stalin and Churchill, Herzog and Kinski, Bill and Hillary, Ungar and Madison, Owens and McNabb?"
Sorry, I can't buy the main premise or the conclusion. It's like saying the US and China will become strategic military partners next week. Saddam was trying to stay just clean enough to avoid an invasion; GWB had to invent a reason to go in.
I would caution you on pre-emptively dispelling certain opinions as naive; it's a long practiced propaganda trick called 'poisoning the well'.
http://www.constitution.org/col/propaganda_army.htm
Posted by: will at November 28, 2005 06:11 PM (h7Ciu)
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Rob wrote;
>What alternatives did the left give us? Oh that's right, none. We would have been sitting here at home doing nothing to combat radical islam, allowing it to fester until the threat was too large to face down.
Actually, the Bush Administration actions in 4 years have done more to advance radical islam than any other event or thrust. The 'War on Terror' has a much larger enemy force now thanks to 'W'.
Posted by: will at November 28, 2005 06:16 PM (h7Ciu)
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