August 09, 2006
Fourth Generation Warfare
There's an excellent article in Sunday's
San Francisco Chronicle regarding a subject I tried to write about
here. The subject is "fourth generation warfare."
The question I asked, and which the Chronicle article addresses, is this: How does a state fight against a non-state in a new era of warfare in which non-states seem to have the advantage?
Look at Hezbollah. It used to be that the side with the most casualties was the loser. It used to be that the side who was forced to give up ground to an opponent was the loser. But as we've seen in the Israeli-Hezbollah war, the world has entered a new era of warfare in which every casualty suffered on the side of the non-state combatant becomes a weapon to be used against the state combatant.
In this new type of warfare, it behooves Hezbollah (and those particular Iraqi insurgents whose goal it is to end the U.S. "occupation") to maximize casualties on their own side of the fence. What we have is a war of attrition in which one side sacrifices its own citizens in order to obtain a strategic goal by non-military means, i.e. by propaganda.
Chronicle staff writer Matthew Stannard provides a more detailed description of "fourth generation warfare:"
A use of all available networks -- political, economic, social and military -- to convince enemy political leaders that their strategic goals are either unachievable or too costly to achieve.
A lack of clearly defined conditions, including beginning and end, victory or defeat, peace or war, civilian and combatant. Modern wars of this type tend to last for years as conflict surges and ebbs and moves between political, military and other battlegrounds.
Antagonists are organized more as sprawling, "leaderless" networks than as tight-knit hierarchies.
At least one side is something other than a military force organized and operating under the control of a national government -- a force that appears widely dispersed and largely undefined, lacking bases, centers of power and other traditional points of assault. These groups tend to seek to use their opponents' size, power and legitimacy against them.
An emphasis on high technology that allows small organizations to asymmetrically attack larger ones -- for example, availability of weapons of mass destruction, tools of electronic warfare or easy access to global media for purposes of propaganda.
Fascinating stuff. I'm reminded of the revolution in warfare brought about by the invention of the "minie" ball around the time of the American Civil War. Military tacticians did not catch up with that sea change until the end of the First World War. And by then there was a whole third dimension to battle that needed to be understood: air power.
What we've seen with "fourth dimensional warfare" is a completely new way for weak opponents to attack and beat strong opponents. I would say this is one of the lessons of Vietnam, and like the "minie" ball revolution, military planners are slow to recognize that the rug has been pulled out from under them. It is especially important that we get a handle on this problem now, because the Cold War is over and we are going to be fighting Hezbollahs and al Qaedas for the forseeable future.
What concerns me is that, in the battle of civilizations called the "War On Terror," the thing that makes us civilized is the thing that makes us weak -- our compassion. When your enemy is uncivilized, and has no concept of compassion, it's hard to win if you're swayed by world opinion.
My thesis is that we cannot win under these new rules. Only a return to the more brutal methods of World War II can beat these non-state actors and their principals (Iran, Syria). But we can't resort to those older methods unless we abandon our aversion to civilian casualties. And I don't see that happening absent a horrific über-9-11 as a catalyst.
Which is why I ended my last post on the subject with that cryptic and ominous final sentence.
h/t Belmont Club
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I was all ready to beotchslap u, until you reached your conclusion. Well done grasshopper. It's gonna be ugly when we take the gloves off, and that day be a'commin.
Posted by: Casca at August 09, 2006 02:42 PM (2gORp)
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You are right, Annika. Unfortunately, 50% of America and more than 50% of Europe live in Fantasy Land, where if you just "talk," or "negotiate," or "understand" the enemy, all will be good. This idiocy is going to get a lot of civilized people killed while the barbarians continue to storm the gates.
Today is the 61st Anniversary of the bombing Nagasaki. Lives were saved and a way of life ensured because we had the courage necessary to make the price too high for our enemies. I hope we don't have to lose another 3,000 citizens before we understand the reality of today and our enemy.
Posted by: Blu at August 09, 2006 02:54 PM (j8oa6)
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The Chronicle and you forget one important element, Annika. That warfare cannot work without the cooperation, collusion and encouragement of Western media,
No one stages a propaganda event unless the media is willing to cover it the way the propagandist desires. If the media ignores the event or critically reports on the event, the events soon disappear.
The way to end this type of warfare is to convince the media to develop some ethics and put an end to their bloodlust.
Posted by: Jake at August 09, 2006 03:28 PM (r/5D/)
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Jake,
Excellent point. Thanks for bringing it up. Michelle Malkin has done an amazing job of late cataloging examples of MSM distortion (e.g. Reuters photo manipulation). It is tough to win a war when your own media is clearly cheerleading for the jihadists.
Posted by: Blu at August 09, 2006 03:44 PM (LXOfu)
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Jake, that's not going to happen. We have to assume that the mainstream media is lost for the forseeable future.
Posted by: annika at August 09, 2006 03:45 PM (zAOEU)
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Annika:
I guess I agree with you. Media ethics is an oxymoron.
Posted by: Jake at August 09, 2006 04:47 PM (r/5D/)
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You are right, we have to get savage to win this type of war.
In fact I believe the following; War should be "nasty, Brutish, and short." Immigrants should be "safe, legal, and rare" and Liberals should be "Stopped, dropped, and rolled".
Posted by: kyle8 at August 09, 2006 05:12 PM (bYW7A)
Posted by: annika at August 09, 2006 06:00 PM (qQD4Q)
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Ain't it a shame that while we drop th e bomb on Iran (OK, Israel will do it for us) and level Iran and Syria to parking lots, we can't assemble the entire maintream media to cover it, and send them a love package as well?
Casca, the gloves are coming off, and soon. The next attack by the IslamoFascists will turn the tide, and the Bushies will use it to clean house.
Hell, they've got my vote now. Why wait?
Posted by: shelly at August 10, 2006 01:11 AM (BJYNn)
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We're just waiting for the baptism of Carlo & Connie's baby.
Posted by: Casca at August 10, 2006 06:17 AM (rEC2k)
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Do you guys really think another terror-attack like 9/11 will wake up the Liberals, the MSM, the rest of the free-world?
I think they're committed to their warped view of the world where the U.S. and President Bush are to blame for everything, and the solution to all of the world's ills are negotiations, cease-fires, and humanitarian aid.
You underestimate just how stupid liberals are, like they underestimate just how dangerous Islamofacism is.
Posted by: Rob at August 10, 2006 07:08 AM (9DumO)
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Maybe the word "stupid" was too harsh.
Let me change that to "misguided."
Posted by: Rob at August 10, 2006 07:10 AM (9DumO)
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Annie - Don't buy into this 4GW theory. First, there is a substantial difference between a theory of wafare (like 4GW) and tactics in conducting warfare.
The generational model is an ineffective way to depict changes in warfare. Simple displacement rarely takes place and significant developments typically occur in parallel. 4GW type tactics as a way of waging war dates back to ancient history, and thus predates the so-called 2d and 3rd generations as described by 4GW theorists. Insurgents, guerrillas, and resistance fighters (pick your term du jour) figured large in many of the wars fought during the age of classical warfare. (The author briefly acknowledges this point and then lets all the other people in the article speak as if somehow today is different)
Increased dispersion and availability of technology, information, and finance brought about by globalization has given terrorist groups greater range of capabilities and access worldwide. Globalization seems to aid the
nonstate actor more than the state, but states still play a central role in the support or defeat of terrorist groups or insurgencies. Could AQ have grown without protection and support from the Taliban government? How effective is Hezbollah without a weak Lebanese government and Syrian/Iranian support? Hamas without a variety of Arab states?
Hamas, Hezbollah, and (to a lesser extent) Al Qaeda actually have integrated themselves into the social and political fabric of mainly Muslim societies worldwide. Hamas and Hezbollah have addressed the every day problems of the people because the existing State has not. Each has also become a powerful political party within their
respective governments. Hamas and Hezbollah
have turned their constituencies into effective weapons by creating strong social, political, and religious ties with them; in short, they
have become communal activists for their constituencies, which have, in turn, facilitated the construction and maintenance of substantial
financial and logistical networks and safe houses. This support then aids in the regeneration of the terrorist groups and allows states to network with them.
The one point Hammes has right is these conflicts are proxy wars due to larger state issues. Credible threats to take out the Syrian and Iranian regimes and credible assurances to bolster the Lebanese government would do far more to reduce Hezbollah than unfortunately what Israel can do at the moment.
Posted by: Col Steve at August 10, 2006 09:00 AM (pj2h7)
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Seen in that light, Col. Steve, then one of the most criticized statements of President Bush "You are either with us or you are with the terrorists" becomes one of the wisest things he's ever said.
Posted by: annika at August 10, 2006 02:14 PM (zAOEU)
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"Credible threats to take out the Syrian and Iranian regimes and credible assurances to bolster the Lebanese government would do far more to reduce Hezbollah than unfortunately what Israel can do at the moment."
Yeah, what Col Steve said!
Posted by: Blu at August 16, 2006 11:15 AM (j8oa6)
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August 07, 2006
Recommended Reading
Blu sent me the following. It's a commentary by Israeli journalist Ben Caspit for the newspaper Ma'ariv, written in the voice of Ehud Olmert. So far as I can tell, it is
not an actual speech by Olmert, just something Caspit wishes Olmert had the guts to say.
I thought it was so good, I'm reprinting it in its entirety.
more...
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"Indeed, it is more than likely that many of the civilian casualties being repeatedly mentioned in the media are in fact Hezbollah fighters killed while hiding in civilian clothes. This does not excuse Israeli mistakes that have undoubtedly cost the lives of genuinely innocent civilians, but exaggeration and Hezbollah tactics of mixing combat fighters among civilians clearly accounts for a fair percentage of the lives lost so far," reports
Asia Times.
'Mothers tell your children not to grow up and date Nasrallahs.' I guess there was a dearth of Southern mother's in Lebanon. Pity.
Posted by: michael at August 09, 2006 08:46 PM (gCjQw)
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Observation
In the aftermath of the Reuters photo meltdown, wherein photographs taken by a freelancer were doctored for political effect, it might be a good time to note that the most compelling independent evidence of the alleged Haditha atrocities are .... photographs taken by a freelancer.
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August 06, 2006
Now We Know Why They Doctored The Photo
You may have been following the Reuters doctored photo controversy. If not,
Beth has a great rundown.
Of course, my sources here at annika's journal came through for me again. Now we know why Reuters photographer Adnan Hajj felt the need to doctor the original photograph. Open the extended entry to view the original.
more...
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1
Oh no, it's the poor bear again!
Posted by: Tammy at August 06, 2006 04:09 PM (u9OGS)
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How dare you insult the Prophet of Satan, Muhammad (Pigs Be Upon Him).
Posted by: Marvin at August 06, 2006 05:39 PM (8a22E)
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This is just for you, Marvin.
http://mohamsterdance.blogspot.com
Posted by: reagan80 at August 06, 2006 05:43 PM (dFOlH)
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This is not the original. The original was a AP photo with very little smoke. You can see it on Little Green Footballs.
Knowing Reuters, it is very possible he had to Photoshop this picture to keep his job
Posted by: Jake at August 06, 2006 07:24 PM (r/5D/)
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I'm sure this sort of stuff doesn't surprise most of the readers here. Typical MSM. Why not doctor photos when you are already doctoring the stories. Big explosions, every possible anecdote about "civilian" casualties, and, of course, Israel's "disproportionate response" is pretty much the guaranteed story line.
Posted by: Blu at August 06, 2006 07:32 PM (LXOfu)
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yeah it doesnt. jahway put down baal, same group of folks. Samuel exterpated baal's supportors. Go forward Israel.
Posted by: patrick at August 06, 2006 09:18 PM (DtkPs)
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sorry patrick that was me Jake.
Posted by: jake at August 06, 2006 09:19 PM (DtkPs)
Posted by: patrick at August 06, 2006 09:24 PM (DtkPs)
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Now, just think of how many shennanigans the MSM indulged in and got away with back in the old days when there was no alternate media?
Posted by: kyle8 at August 07, 2006 03:12 AM (tRsnh)
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Did any of you read that the Clinton News Network (aka CNN) is using imagery created by the Al-Manar network, the network owned and operated by Hezbollah? I'd also like to know if the MSM has has single story on the affect of thousands of Hez rockets (specifcally intended to kill real civilians)on Israel's children. (This comment and question are both derived from a guest post on the HH blog.) How many times will the MSM be fooled by Muslim propoganda? I'm willing to bet you won't see FOX News busting out BS imagery provided by terrorist propoganda machines.
Posted by: Blu at August 07, 2006 09:12 AM (j8oa6)
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Just in case you'd like to know, I'll give you my prognostication on the Lamont/Lieberman race. Stick a fork in him, Lieberman is done. Now, can
Alan Schlesinger make Ned look like the kook he is?
Posted by: Casca at August 07, 2006 12:13 PM (rEC2k)
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Jeez, Casca, I wish you were right, but Joe will walk away with this race in the General, running as an Independent.
What distresses me is that he'll organize with the D.'s anyway. But no way to elect a R. in Connecticut, the East's answer to San Francisco.
Posted by: shelly at August 07, 2006 10:22 PM (BJYNn)
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great site.. you redneck punks should go to college after you wash up this year...
we should strip you from your citizenships :p
Posted by: sam cassidy at August 10, 2006 04:42 AM (KWSP7)
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lame site. minds like these create wars. you guys are the real terrorists
Posted by: d.banga at August 13, 2006 09:38 PM (PKcah)
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August 05, 2006
Violence Begets Violence, The Macro View
Wikipedia has a list of ongoing wars:
Basque Terrorism in Spain; Colombian Civil War; Islamic Insurgency in the Philippines; Somalian Civil War; Tamil conflict in Sri Lanka; Shining Path Insurgency in Peru; Papua New Guinea Civil War in Indonesia; Turkish-Kurdish conflict; LRA rebellion in Uganda; Casamance Conflict in Senegal; Somali Civil War; Myanmar Civil War; India-Pakistan Kashmir conflict; Georgian Civil War; Algerian Civil War; Ethnic conflict in Nagaland, India; Zapatista Rebellion in Mexico; Nepalese Civil War; Second Congo War; Ituri Conflict; Second Chechen War; al-Aqsa Intifada in Israel and the Palestinian Territories; Laotian-Hmong Civil War; Taliban Insurgency in Afghanistan; Côte d'Ivoire Civil War; South Thailand insurgency; Iraqi Insurgency; Balochistan conflict in Pakistan; Waziristan War between Pakistan and al Qaeda; Darfur conflict; Chadian-Sudanese conflict; Western Sahara Independence Intifada; and the Israel-Lebanon crisis.
I made some changes to Wikipedia's list, which was overinclusive. Obviously, the wars that are most relevant to us are the Iraqi Insurgency, the Taliban Insurgency, the so-called Waziristan War, and the Israel-Lebanon crisis. But the main thing one gets from looking at the 33 conflicts listed is that the majority of them involve nation states fighting against irregular armies or guerrillas.
In armed conflict between nations and guerillas, the advantages of a nation state are easy to name. They are usually better equipped and better trained. They have professional leadership. They can form alliances with other nation states to obtain resources such as weapons and intelligence, if not actual military assistance. Their status as a recognized state confers a measure of legitimacy to their actions that guerillas do not have, at least initially.
The weakness of guerrilla forces are similarly obvious. In comparison to national armed forces, guerrillas are usually outnumbered. Their access to advanced weaponry is limited or non-existent. They usually lack formal training and professional leadership. They must operate in secret, which hampers their ability to communicate among themselves and their allies, and to obtain and store weapons and supplies.
However, guerrilla forces have distinct advantages over national armed forces. They usually do not wear uniforms, and when not in actual combat can remain in close proximity to their opponent, safely disguised as civilians. Guerrillas are by definition committed to their goal, and thus have the luxury of time. They do not have to answer to indifferent political forces back home, which can be a great advantage in a war of attrition. As Mao once said: The enemy advances, we retreat. The enemy camps, we harass. The enemy tires, we attack. The enemy retreats, we pursue.
And now, the latest Israeli-Lebanon conflict has thrown the weakness of nation states vis-a-vis guerrilla forces into sharp relief. Hezbollah's strategy has been to exploit the political weakness of Israel and its ally the United States. That weakness has been an unwillingness to suffer the opprobrium of world opinion, and that weakness has to date proved decisive.
The war in Lebanon is not over, but it looks like a cease fire is inevitable. If it comes to pass, no one should have any doubts about the permanency of the cease fire. It will not be permanent. How can it be when one side remains committed to the complete destruction of its opponent and the other side is committed to its own survival?
I have always said that there are two sure-fire solutions to the decades long Middle East Conflict. The first would be for all the various Palestinian groups to lay down their arms and adopt non-violent protest as their philosophy. That's a subject for another entire post, but I truly believe that a Gandhi style rebellion in the Palestinian territories would result in a fully independent Palestinian state within probably five years, maybe less. It will never happen because the Palestinian terrorist leadership doesn't really care about independence; they only care about killing Jews.
The second sure-fire solution recognizes the fact that the Palestinian leadership wants the conflict to continue because that enables them to keep killing Jews, which is their reason for existence. The second solution is to allow both sides to fight each other until one side wins. That means no cease fire, no brokered agreement, no cessation of hostilities, no UN peacekeeping force. Fight until one side surrenders.
We all know that if Israel were allowed to engage in Clausewitzian total war against its enemies, Israel would win. The Palestinian terrorists know this too. That's why Hezbollah and Hamas try to walk a fine line. They goad Israel into attacking, then cry foul when Israel responds. A cease fire is imposed and the terrorists bide their time until the next intifada. The enemy advances, we retreat. The enemy camps, we harass. The enemy tires, we attack. The enemy retreats, we pursue.
The trouble with the total war solution is its ugliness. Since World War II, the civilized world has not had the stomach for civilian casualties on a large scale. Every civilian death is now "regrettable," which is a new phenomenon in the history of the world.
Civilians have always died in war. Before the modern era, civilians were targeted directly. The ancients knew that pillaging was part of war. Victors from Genghis Khan to Napoleon put whole villages to the sword, simply for the crime of having been on the other side of a line on a map.
Did people protest these atrocities? Sure. Its not that people didn't think this type of warfare was unfair to the innocent. They did, but people had different expectations than we do nowadays. If Napoleon burned your town and his troops raped your wife and killed your kids, you didn't complain to Napoleon. You complained to your king, and then he went over there and kicked Napoleon's ass.
It was all about tribalism in the old days. You belonged to a tribe, and the other guy belonged to his tribe. If the other guy did something bad to your tribe, you expected and demanded that your tribe would retaliate by doing something bad to his tribe. That was understood as justice.*
In more recent times, our rationale for killing civilians moderated a bit, even if the number of dead civilians seemed to go up. During World War II, while the Japanese, Germans and Russians were committing acts of barbarism against civilians on the ground, we held ourselves to a different standard. We killed civilians too, but we did it from afar. And we killed a lot of them. Almost a million German civilians died from strategic bombing, and a similar number of Japanese with them. That was total war, and along with all those corpses it produced a clear victor, and a lasting peace.
I started out by remarking how many of the conflicts going on in the world are between guerilla movements and nation states. I'm trying to understand why, in an age when B-2 bombers from Missouri can attack an unseen enemy 7000 miles away in Afghanistan, yet we're not able to defeat a bunch of punks armed with homemade bombs in Baghdad. One fine morning in 1967, the Israeli Air Force destroyed the entire combined air forces of three sovereign nations. Yet here we are in 2006, about to watch a band of criminals shooting glorified bottle rockets claim victory over the vaunted IDF.
I'm sure there's lots of guys working in thinktanks and war colleges whose job it is to figure these things out, but so far I haven't seen nor heard of any effective way to fight guerrillas other than by total unrestricted warfare — which we won't do. How do you counter the weighty advantage they've claimed for themselves by co-opting the machinery of world public opinion? How do you beat an enemy that has perfected the use of civilian deaths both offensively and defensively, if your one achilles heel is the fear of civilian deaths?
America has fought against guerrilla forces in the past. We did it successfully during the Plains Indians Wars and the Philippine Insurrection. We were unsuccessful during Vietnam, although the ugliness of our methods was similar in all three wars. And that's the point. We can't fight and win against a guerrilla enemy unless we do so in a brutal manner. And even then, the outcome is not certain.
To win, the enemy needs to know that violence begets violence. They need to know that if they mess with our tribe, we will mess with theirs and we won't be deterred if things get ugly and innocent civilians die. But the reality is something completely different, because in fact we are deterred by civilian casualties. In fact, we are fighting two wars and a nominal war on terror with the express handicap that we will do everything to avoid harming civilians as much as possible.
That's the situation, and that's why we're still in Iraq. The administration's policy is not to become more brutal, which could win victory but would turn the world against us. (Even more than they already have, that is.) Instead the administration's ultimate goal is to prepare an Iraqi security force to fight the guerrilla war. In truth, our plan is to pass the buck to the Iraqis. It's the only solution, if one recognizes the fact that the world is not in a place where it will accept brutality by a nation state in a small-scale war like Iraq.
I suppose that is understandable. I'm not arguing here for total war, indiscriminate killing of civilians, collective punishment, or the adoption of brutality in Iraq. I'm merely trying to point out the reality of our dilemma. We can't do what needs to be done, so we won't do it. The enemy knows this and is smart enough to recognize it as our greatest weakness. They will keep fighting us, and using our weakness against us. We advance, they retreat. We camp, they harass. We tire, they attack. We retreat, they pursue. Follow this line of thought to its logical conclusion and you'll realize something even scarier.
We may end up with total war, whether we like it or not.
_______________
* Nowadays the "world" has a different, some would say more enlightened, definition of justice. Today's justice revolves around preventing the innocent from getting killed. That's fine and dandy, except we don't apply that ideal evenly across the board. There's plenty of dead innocent people around the world who might have argued that our new definition of "justice" didn't do them a whole lot of good.
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If a Democrat had been President, the Iraqi war would have been over in 2004. The MSM, the academic world and the entertainment industry would have supported the war no matter what. That meant that the terrorists would have received no encouragement from the US to continue their slaughter. The terrorists would have given up within a year.
Posted by: Jake at August 05, 2006 04:16 PM (r/5D/)
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Excellent post, Annika.
In the end, I don't know what is going to happen in Iraq. I hope the administration's Iraqi-fication policies work. If we're lucky, we won't have to partition the country into 3 new ethnic/sectarian nations. Strategy Page surmises that the "civil war" won't last very long at this rate if the Sunni Arabs are the only problem.
http://tinyurl.com/oqxqh
The Sunni Arab headhackers used to be the ones that wanted us to get out of Iraq the most, but now they want us to stick around to protect them from their formerly oppressed victims in the majority.
If the ethnic cleansing of Sunni Arabs and a Kurdistan mini-apartheid against Arabs will bring stability to that country, we shouldn't stop it.
Posted by: reagan80 at August 05, 2006 07:06 PM (dFOlH)
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There is one way, just short of scorched earth to fight insurgent/guerilla forces. But it takes time and money. You build up your own insurgent force as secretly as possible and send them out to spy and infiltrate the enemy. At the same time you try to make it as uncomfortable as possible for the local population to harbor the insurgents.
Obviously that approach works best when the terrorists are of the same ethnicity as the nation state. It would be more difficult for Israel for instance to do the same although it might be worth a try.
Posted by: kyle8 at August 06, 2006 05:58 AM (pkyh4)
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I think Peru was successful by using counter insurgent militias against the communist Shining Path guerrillas. Of course that wouldn't work in Iraq, since militias are part of the problem.
Posted by: annika at August 06, 2006 09:30 AM (qQD4Q)
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Unfortunately, our lack of troops combined with wishful thinking made short shrift of our nonexistent counterinsurgency strategy in the latter part of 2003.
First, there are ways to win counterinsurgencies and it's done all the time. The key is to make life very difficult for the insurgents and life comparatively better for those loyal the governmet. This comes from things like fortified hamlets, generous aid to turncoats, saturation patrolling, educating the populace on benefits of working with government, collective punishment and mass dispersal of areas that support terrorists, public executions of captured terrorists, domination of cities with heavy troop presence, a census with draconian punishments for unregistered inhabitants of country, etc. This has worked in Algeria, Malaya, Latin America, etc. We have done almost none of these things, intead buttoning up in bases, occasional presence patrols (combined with mutual fear and misunderstanding with populace), half-assed training of indigenous forces, complete nonconsequence to most regions that support terrorists, hair-brained hearts and minds gestures, and, most important, a lack of understanding that security is the first among equals in things that the replacement regime provided by us needs to provide for commerce and other goals to be achieved.
But we never governed Iraq and we never stood up a functioning government. Instead we handed off a nonfunctioning governme to the Iraqis. Instead of providing security as the keystone of any hearts and minds strategy, we thought giving this nonfunctioning government a democratic imprimatur would make the Iraqis rally to it. This did not work; instead our actions have discredited democracy, by combining the defects of the current Iraqi regime with the Iraqi and Arab appraisal of democracy genreally. In their minds, "democracy" is reasonably equated with the chaos now in Iraq.
Finally, even if we defeated the first crew of insurgents on the battlefield, we never set the conditions in which the replacement Iraqi regime could rally support from the whole country. And why? Because Iraq was not much of a country to begin with, but instaed and armed camp with lots of constituencies who are mutually hostile. There never was an idea or concept of "Iraq" and the new regime's goals that would unify the country. People don't fight for "democracy." Democracy is a procedure of how one picks his rulers. What the Iraqi government actually is supposed to do has always been up in the air from day one. We of course want it to do our bidding, but this is kind of hard to reconcile with democrayc when most of the people follow an illiberal religion and have other sources of alienation from the US, e.g., anti-colonialist viewpoint, history, sympathy with Palestinians etc.
So we've screwed this up tactically (not enough linguists, weak investment in Iraqi forces, all too frequent "collateral damage" that flows from lack of linguists and intel), strategically (aiming for democracy, "light footprint strategy), and politically (no coherent concept of Iraqi agnenda, aiming for democracy at all, handing off nonfunctioning government).
More and more it's obvious we must withdraw before our army is destroyed, hopefully after some brutal retaliation on areas of the country that have aimed themselves at our forces, e.g., Sadr City, Fallujah, Ramadi.
Posted by: Roach at August 06, 2006 04:48 PM (TY/gr)
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Interesting post, and interesting comments.
We are not fighting with the primary intention of creating stability in the Mideast. Instead, we are actually roiling the area - intentionally.
Our primary purpose is to inject Western ideas into the Mideast - like a virus. We hope the democratic virus will defeat jihadi ideology.
Now, God forbid the democratic Iraqi government should either fall, or become irrelevant - like the Lebanese government. However, even if one of these unpleasant results occurs, the democratic virus has already been injected into the Mideast more deeply than ever before - and that is the strategy we believe will make America safer in the long run. OIF has achieved it's primary goal. Therefore, OIF is a strategic success. The only question is how big a success it will be.
Posted by: gcotharn at August 06, 2006 09:10 PM (kHrXu)
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It had multiple goals, and it's only achieved one, ridding Iraq of Saddam Hussein. The "instability" of our presence in Iraq was not supposed to be in the form of an awful civil war that daily shows our impotence vis a vis both the insurgency and brutal elements in the Shiite government. The instability was supposed to come from the Ptoemkin Village that Iraq was to become, a model regime of law, order, democracy, and social peace. It is none of those things; so, instead of showing American client regimes can be well governed, liberal, and rewarded, we created a client regime taht is poorly governed, illberal, hard to control in a way that furthers our interests, and, because of the undeniable hell that Iraq is today, a daily argument against democacy to the rest of the Middle East. The fact that so many Iraqi refugees, chiefly professionals, are headed to Jordan and Syria is quite telling as for what kind of government they think is best, even with the narrow goal of simply being able to work, turn on the lights, and not worry about waking up to a death squad coming to kill one's entire family.
It is profoundly dishonest and mistaken to call this a strategic success. We've emboldened Jihadis, emboldened Iran, provided a de facto argument every day of why democracy is NOT a good road for the middle east.
This whole stupid and ideologically motivated quest for democacy is wrong on so many levels. First, it misapprehends the genius of our own system as "democracy" rather than our well balanced constitution. Two, it forgets to ask what kind of policies these democracies will pursue. Three, it ignores the benefits of stability from regimes such as King Abdullah's or Hosni Mubarak's. Four, it is too ambitious, the neoconservative equivalent of the liberal war on crime, going after "root causes" that likely won't change for a 1,000 years rather than just finding the bad guys and killing them.
These Trotskyites are endangering our country, our military, and empowering our enemies.
Posted by: Roach at August 07, 2006 08:57 AM (1BjlW)
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Ptoemkin Village refers to a plywood/cardboard/Hollywood set type of fake village.
I agree with "multiple goals". You lose me when you fail to include the injection of democracy/western ideas as one of those goals. This indicates a zealous mindset on your part, and an unwillingness to fairly characterize the situation. Pres. Bush has clearly stated, over and over, that we intend to inject democratic ideas into Iraq. The Iraqis themselves must make the ideas real.
We did not write and impose a constitution upon Iraq. We will all be dead before it is known if that was the best course of action.
You say the Iraq insurgency exposes our impotence. I say, where we are impotent, let it be known. I say that is a good thing: let the light shine in. It's time to get some things defined and declared - for their benefit, and for our own. Let the players show their cards.
Old joke: Dr. tells man he is impotent. Man buys a new hat. Man says: "If I'm gonna
be impotent, I'm gonna
look impotent!"
It might or might not be fair to say Baghdad is an undeniable hell. I reject(deny?!

that characterization vis a vis the entire nation.
I reject this opinion:
Iraq is a daily argument against democracy.
I don't believe this is happening in numbers which are significant:
so many Iraqi refugees, chiefly professionals, are headed to Jordan and Syria, and I reject your stated conclusion:
is quite telling as for what kind of government they think is best.
You write:
We've emboldened Jihadis, emboldened Iran. This would be a problem, if our main goal was status quo stability. It was not. Status quo stability is what was going to get us killed. If Jihadis are emboldened, great. Makes em easier to kill. If Iran is emboldened, great. Wakes the world up, and makes the Iran problem easier to resolve.
ideologically motivated quest for democacy is wrong on so many levels
As opposed to, what? Ideologically motivated quest for tyranny, oppression, and backwardness?
misapprehends the genius of our own system as "democracy" rather than our well balanced constitution
"Democracy" is shorthand. No one says "democracy" and means "oppressive, inadequate constitution." The whole argument of
"if you inject democracy, they will elect terrorists President" is strawman, strawman, strawman. "Democracy" is shorthand for "injecting democratic, civilized, humane ideas into a backwards, 6th century, stagnant hovel of humanity." You want that written out every time?
it ignores the benefits of stability from regimes such as King Abdullah's or Hosni Mubarak's
Bullshit. We can inject ideas, roil the region, and still appreciate a proper amount of stability. No one is denying the existence of complexity.
going after "root causes" that likely won't change for a 1,000 years rather than just finding the bad guys and killing them.
It is your masturbatory dream that we can
just find the bad guys and kill them.
Just finding the bad guys and killing them entails taking out untold scads of civilians. This is why our strategy is to convert the populace to our side, then have the converted populace take out the bad guys. If you reject, out of hand, the possibility of this strategy working, then you are advocating that we undertake a bloodbath. Things may, God forbid, get to the bloodbath stage. But first, we are trying the conversion strategy.
These Trotskyites are endangering our country, our military, and empowering our enemies.
Looking at this sentence, I can see I have wasted my time in replying to you. Shit. I guess I'll post this anyway. But it's a close call.
Posted by: gcotharn at August 07, 2006 10:20 AM (kHrXu)
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August 04, 2006
Two Men Arrested In AZ
Great news! It looks like they've
arrested two suspects in the Arizona Serial Shooter case. Supposedly the shooter and his driver. That means the Baseline Killer is still out there. I hope they get him soon.
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July 14, 2006
Mideast Peace Process
One part of me thinks that there's a real opportunity for peace in the middle east if the international community would only do one thing: Nothing.
The reason I've been hearing the phrase "Mid-East Peace Process" all my life is mainly because there has been a Mid-East Peace Process. If the world would just let both sides go at it, winner take all, I think we might see an end to this decades long circle-jerk.
After victory comes peace. So I want to advise Israel: don't bow to international pressure. No cease fires. No negotiations. No more bullshit. Roll up Hezbollah like Stonewall at Chancellorsville. Crush Hamas like Sherman on his way to the sea.
But another part of me senses danger.
The two Palestinian terrorist organizations want to see Israel destroyed. There's no chance in hell that they could accomplish that militarily, so they're trying to provoke this confrontation into a full on Arab Israeli war. Iran wants to see this happen too. They want Israel to attack Syria, so that Iran can jump in. Then, they hope Israel strikes Iran's nuclear research plants, which would be real bad.
For the last few months I've been casually researching whether Israel could successfully attack Iran's nuclear sites. I am now convinced that they have the technical capability to pull it off. They have the right planes, and Iran's air defenses would be no match for the Israeli Air Force. They also have an aerial refueling capability and they recently acquired the BLU-113, which is the most bad-ass of all the bunker buster warheads.
On the downside, Israel really has no good route to Iran. Any way they go would cause political problems that I don't like. The route that makes the most sense would be straight through Iraq, but that would completely fuck up what we're trying to accomplish there by inflaming the Shia. If the Israelis went south through Saudi Arabia, there would be refueling issues, and they could not avoid pissing off the Saudis. Going north might piss off the Turks. I don't like any of those choices, which is why I've always believed that we should be the ones to knock out the Iranian facilities, if it has to be done.
And if we get involved in this thing, well... I don't like to think about it. You all remember where the plains of Armageddon are, don't you? I'm serious, this is scary.
Today Hezbollah's leader Sheik Hassan Nasrallah went Scarface on the Israelis: "You want a wahh, you got a wahh." One might wonder how he intends to actually win it. Without an army or air force, he's either an idiot, or he knows something I don't. Maybe he's rolling the dice, or maybe he knows big brother Ahmadi-Nejad is his ace in the hole.
With Korea and India and now the Middle East burning up, I think this is the most dangerous global situation to exist in my lifetime. And of course I picked this time to go travelling. And to Denmark no less!
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Annika
I agree with you that these are perilous times. I remember the height of the Cold War. It was nothing like this. We as a world seem to be spiraling towards world wide war. With N Korea and Iran developing nukes, it may be sometime soon when they give, or sell, one of these devices to a jihadist nutjob who wants his 72 virgins and will blow himself up and take out a major city with him.
By the way, Have a Great time in Denmark. Say 'Hi' to Hamlet. Or is there something rotten in the state of Denmark?
Posted by: JJJet at July 14, 2006 09:29 PM (j1cJ0)
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Have a great trip, Annie, but don't draw any cartoons.
And, when you return, get the Hell out of mu.nu and get on to one of the providers that know how to screen spam without having to shut down every other day.
Posted by: shelly at July 15, 2006 02:38 AM (BJYNn)
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Try not to have too many lesbian trysts with big boobed scandinavian girls. (Well I have my fantasies ok)
Posted by: kyle8 at July 15, 2006 05:03 AM (7WIhc)
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Good points, all, Annie. Puts the US in a tough position. Not to mention the impact on oil prices. Lots of variable.
The Euros and the UN are so fucking predictable and pathetic. "Disproportionate response," blah, blah, fucking blah. (Have any of them blamed Haliburton or Cheney yet?) Chirac needs to kiss the asses of all the Muslim pond scum his effete country let in its borders. Well, there's that and just the plain, rampant anti-semitism prevalent in the far European Left and Right.
Posted by: blu at July 15, 2006 12:26 PM (j8pkL)
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All good points but i think that fear inside you is more or less the female inside you talking. Im not a nutjob warmonger but militarily defeating those insane islamists would be easy. What I dont like is my stock holding downward spiral and high gas prices. If there is a real threat to the whole idea of all out war in the mideast it would be with Russia. China depends on America too much economically and wouuld colapse into a depression. It can be done but once again the europeans...... Have fun in Denmark, I just got back from Norway....well I'm back physically anyways.
Posted by: Jeff at July 15, 2006 04:27 PM (njqFN)
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Putin is as bad as the rest of the Euro pussies. His comments today are beyond hypocritical considering his country's response to its own Muslim fanatics. How do these clowns get up there and say the crap they say with a straight face? Once again, Israel is attacked and the world blames the victim.
Posted by: Blu at July 15, 2006 04:50 PM (j8pkL)
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Have you noticed that no one is blaming George Bush for the price of oil for a change?
Posted by: NOTR at July 15, 2006 05:42 PM (izx0t)
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NOTR, He will be blamed trust me......ellection 06 ads will be all over it. blu I couldnt help but to think the same thing. But lets not forget that Russia doesnt sell arms to the chechnyans.....they sell them all over the middle east though. Did you know the biggest export out of russia is their AK47? Look it up.
Posted by: jeff at July 15, 2006 06:08 PM (njqFN)
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"Did you know the biggest export out of russia is their AK47? "
No, thanks for the information.
"But lets not forget that Russia doesnt sell arms to the chechnyans.....they sell them all over the middle east though."
Another thing they have in common with the hypocritical French.
Posted by: Blu at July 15, 2006 06:30 PM (j8pkL)
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BTW, Michelle Malkin has a post ("I Stand With Israel")that includes an essay by Oriana Fallaci that should be read by all. It's powerful and does an amazing job showing the anti-semitism prevalent amongst(duh)Muslims, but also the Left -especially the Euro Left. It also calls out the Catholic Church for its shameful moral relativism in regard to Israel. I'm not Catholic, but generally find the Church a force for good in the world. But it is dead wrong on this issue. And in its stance, I think, it aids the enemy.
Posted by: Blu at July 15, 2006 06:46 PM (j8pkL)
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As a Catholic, I agree with Blu.
Posted by: reagan80 at July 15, 2006 07:20 PM (dFOlH)
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Have you noticed that people who talk a lot about "process" are generally not very smart? There are exceptions, of course (as in industries like chemicals which are called "process industries") but in general, blathering on about "process" is an attempt to hide an individual's lack of substantive knowledge and real ideas.
Posted by: david foster at July 15, 2006 09:34 PM (4oDU/)
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Nice blog. I like your writing.
Posted by: Imperial Logic at July 16, 2006 03:34 AM (87PC2)
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Good opinions Annika. In mind the world should have learned the lesson of Munich (this was the 1938 Munich/appeasing Hitler thing) the first time. Oddly enough its the people involved with that conference who are once again with their heads in the sand. New words and new issues but the same results. Give us territory or we'll make your life a living hell, maybe.
I hope your trip to Dennmark goes well, my family is going in the opposite direction this summer.
Drake
Posted by: drake steel at July 16, 2006 08:18 AM (+vXQY)
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Make sure you get some religion while you are in Copenhagen. It's called Christiania.
I don't know what state you live in, but I wonder how you'd feel if the Gypsies moved in and took over all but about 25% of your land. Then took your water. Then got themselves armed with nuclear weapons by the rest of the world. Took away your rights to work. Made you wait at checkpoints for hours just to travel.
I think anyone who looks at this situation rationally and fairly sees that Israel is just as much to blame, actually more so because they more than the other side have more power to change things for the better. They just choose not to because they are as much terrorists as the Arabs.
Don't misunderstand me, I think what the Muslems are doing is horrible and I do not support their agenda either.
I truely believe as Martin Luther King, Jr. did that there is always a non-violent answer.
Posted by: Rastaman at July 16, 2006 12:40 PM (DsPsq)
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I'm about as pro-Israel as a person can be, so might as well save your breath.
Posted by: annika at July 16, 2006 03:04 PM (C8Oer)
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Rastaman, the "moral equivalency" bullshit that is spouted by you and the NY Times, LA Times, and most of the mainstream media is incomprehensible to normal folks.
The Hezbollah and Hamas thugs are murderers and suicidal maniacs who want to kill Israelis (and us) for living our lives the way we choose, nothing more.
There are millions of acres in the Mid-East and all of them could move to another Arab controlled land and live happily ever after, but they choose to live next to Israel and bedevil it at every turn.
There is no living in peace with these maniacs; they don't want to be left alone, they want to tell us all how to live.
You'd be one of the first to go, as you handed them the olive branch, they'd cut your arm off and beat you to death with it.
Get with it; we are in a global conflict and it is them against us.
Can we all just get along? Ha, they respect nothing but the fist, so Israel is giving them some cause for respect, and if necessary, we'll join in.
Go find another blog where some liberals hang out; none around here.
Annie, I thought you were gone; I was going through withdrawl. Can't you get a laptop?
Posted by: shelly at July 16, 2006 04:31 PM (BJYNn)
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Good Gawd, why do you people parlay with the nidgits?
And now for something completely different. I bought a BMW K1100RS this weekend. What a fucking teutonic whore of a machine... OOOOOOAAAAAAA! I'll be busy for a while.
PS Drove it from LA to SD, and those fucktards in LA can't fucking drive to save their fucking lives. It's time to return to public hangings for radical last minute lane changes, and chicks applying makeup, and all fomos yaking in traffic on their mobiles. Yes, I'm entirely serious.
PPS The Israelis have shaped the battle area Next week they'll be driving North. This from Casca Jr, and I quite agree. Just don't let the water get into the wine.
Posted by: Casca at July 16, 2006 05:43 PM (2gORp)
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How disappointing; four paragraphs, plus adolescent auto erection masturbation in public.
What is this world coming to?
Posted by: shelly at July 17, 2006 03:50 AM (BJYNn)
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Shelly,
You're right, you're all right. MLK was an ignoramous. The right thing to do would be to nuke them Arab freaks into a parking lot then expand the Jewish state until it covers the whole of the middle east.
There you are, problem solved. Next. Global warming? Left wing propaganda. Next. Global hunger? They're poor because they want to be poor.
I just hope I'm dead before you get the world you want.
Posted by: Rastaman at July 23, 2006 08:53 AM (DsPsq)
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July 12, 2006
Meanwhile, Enrichment Continues
It's so frustrating watching this slow dance between Iran and the G-6. You just want to sceam at them: "cut to the chase!" However, as I said before, the delaying game benefits us as well as Iran - but only if we use the time well. And to date I have seen no sign that we are doing anything other than playing patsy to a tin-pot third world dictatorship. Damn it, Bush and Condi. Wake the fuck up!
From AP:
World powers agreed Wednesday to send Iran back to the United Nations Security Council for possible punishment, saying the clerical regime has given no sign it means to negotiate seriously over its disputed nuclear program.
The United States and other permanent members of the powerful U.N. body said Iran has had long enough to say whether it will meet the world's terms to open bargaining that would give Tehran economic and energy incentives in exchange for giving up suspicious activities.
"The Iranians have given no indication at all that they are ready to engage seriously on the substance of our proposals," French Foreign Minister Philippe Douste-Blazy said.
. . .
Any real punishment or coercion at the Security Council is a long way off, but the group said it will seek an initial resolution requiring Iran to suspend its uranium enrichment. Debate could begin as soon as next week.
If Iran does not comply, the group said it would then seek harsher action. The group's short statement did not give any specifics, but it cited a section of the world body's charter that could open the door to economic or other sanctions.
. . .
The group said it could stop the Security Council actions at any time should Iran cooperate.
Make sure you say please, guys. Maybe that will help.
There's always the possibility that the administration is following my advice about supporting Iranian dissidents, and that we just don't hear about it because things are happening behind the scenes. However, by this time in Reagan's second term, the Solidarnosc movement in Poland was in full swing and everybody knew it. I see nothing similar happening in Iran, although I keep hearing that the country is ripe for it.
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FUCKING STOP IRAN NOW
I will never ever ever ever understand the reasons why a bunch of over-educated, extremely pedigreed people cannot simply communicate. The world of diplomats just cannot call a spade a spade, so fuck them. I fucking hate them, even more so than I hate the people responsible for onlooker slowdown. They are endangering the fucking safety of the fucking world so they can continue to draft toilet paper resolutions and get photo ops before they go eat a 200 dollar meal with the other self-important pricks they work with. Fire them all and staff the State Dept with Marines!
Posted by: Scof at July 12, 2006 08:48 PM (iCNOR)
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Yes, the pace at which a resolution to the whole affair is taking place is excruciatingly slow. Hopefully, the G6 know that enrichment is hitting a snag, that a rebel movement is in gestation as you suggest, or that another measure heretofore unmentioned is awaiting a triggerpoint. And then there is NK to consider...
Posted by: will at July 13, 2006 02:39 AM (h7Ciu)
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Iran and KN are both alarming and unfortuately both present few good options for the US. While both are obviously extremely important, the most important thing going on in the world is happening in Israel. Israel is at war. Why? Because they suffered yet another unprovoked attack from sub-humans. Of course, the usual suspects (W. Europe, Kofi, etc) are acting as if Israel is the problem. "Disproportionate reponse" and all the sanctimonious BS. Even the US support is tepid.
Can you imagine the response if Mexicans fired rockets in San Diego, stormed across our border and killed our soilders, kidnapped people, and acted as if the US was responsible?
To make things worse, the cowards hide amongst their own populations. BTW, the terrorist rocket attacks are targetting purely civilian populations with no military value.
Posted by: blu at July 13, 2006 12:31 PM (j8pkL)
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Hopefully, the Israelis' search goes better than our search for Pancho Villa did.
Posted by: reagan80 at July 13, 2006 12:45 PM (dFOlH)
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Unfortunately, Russia will be no help to us on the Security Council, as they're cementing a massive joint venture with Iran by proposing a natural gas pipeline version of OPEC.
http://peakoil.com/article17069.html
Posted by: will at July 14, 2006 03:38 AM (h7Ciu)
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July 11, 2006
Breaking News

MAINSTREAM MEDIA FAILS TO HALT INDIAN TERROR PLOT, HUNDREDS DEAD
MUMBAI (AJN) - A coordinated series of seven exposions ripped through several commuter trains in Mumbai, India yesterday, killing at least 160 people and injuring more than 400. And now the repercussions of this latest apparent terror attack have begun to affect the once revered Mainstream Media.
One day after the attacks, which appear to bear the signature of Islamic terrorists, many observers are asking why the Mainstream Media did not act to prevent these deaths beforehand.
"It is horrible," said one man who asked not to be identified. "I ask myself why? Why did not the New York Times do something about this? Why did they not stop these bad men? Do they not care about the lives of innocent Indians?"
News analyst and terror expert Annika, of the blog Annika's Journal, told AJN that questions are being raised about the Mainstream Media's failure to detect and prevent the Mumbai terror plot.
"A lot of people are scratching their heads today," said Annika. "They wonder how the MSM could have fucked this one up so badly. They have more than adequate resources to detect a plot like this [the Mumbai bombings]. They're always patting themselves on the back about their investigative reporting, yet they couldn't stop these terrorists. And now hundreds of people are dead."
The Mainstream Media has recently come under attack from far right conservative groups for releasing information about secretive American anti-terrorism programs, which some say are designed to uncover information about future terrorist plans.
"When the New York Times spends all it's time investigating the programs that are meant to stop terrorists from killing, you got to ask why they can't spare just a little effort trying to investigate the terrorists," said Annika. "It couldn't hurt, and it might just save lives."
Media representatives responded to Annika's criticisms, on condition of anonymity. "It's not our job to be law enforcement," said one television news executive. "That's the government's job, to stop terrorists. We're just there to report news, not make it."
Yet Annika and other media watchers argue that the Mainstream Press has unique capabilities that the government does not possess, which could be used to unearth terror plots before they occur.
"For instance, covert government investigations can always be revealed by members of the press, often destroying months of hard work," said Annika. "But if the same investigation were conducted by reporters, who's going to rat on them? We all know reporters would rather rot in jail than give up one inch of their precious First Amendment rights."
A former New York Times reporter recently served 85 days in jail rather than reveal the identity of one of her journalistic sources.
"The New York Times, The Washington Post... These guys are so proud of how they brought down Nixon, and he didn't even kill anybody," Annika continued. "The L.A. Times didn't have any problem finding every chick Arnold groped back in the seventies. How come they can't find Osama? Bill Keller seems to think he's got better judgment on national security issues than the freakin' Department of Homeland Security. Let him put that superior judgment to use... fighting terrorists instead of helping them."
Bill Keller is the executive editor of the New York Times, which has come under fire by far right wing extremist groups such as the Republican Party for allegedly revealing details of secret U.S. government anti-terror programs. He could not immediately be reached for comment.
"And CNN? Don't get me started," Annika concluded. "It's unconscionable for CNN to wash their hands of these continued terrorist attacks. They consider themselves 'citizens of the world.' What a fucking joke. They're such hypocrites. The people in Madrid and Bali and London and Baghdad and now Mumbai are all citizens of the world too. The MSM is a disgrace."
AJN's Annika Becker contributed to this report.
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Why can't they investigate the terrorists instead of the people trying to catch the terrorists- the age old question.
Posted by: jane at July 11, 2006 10:45 PM (Ffvoi)
Posted by: blu at July 11, 2006 11:29 PM (j8pkL)
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I have no problem with the reporting of abuses. It may be the dream of conservative Republicans to make non-GOP news outlets the paragon of evil, but the only people who are going to fall for that are conservative Republicans. So an article like this can be viewed as an attempt to retain/enforce this scenario among those who already believe it.
Posted by: will at July 12, 2006 02:49 AM (h7Ciu)
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The term "non-GOP news outlets" is redundant.
Posted by: shelly at July 12, 2006 03:35 AM (BJYNn)
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Nice one, Annika, but you need to throw in some "root causes" to help justify this act, such as India's Kashmir policy.
BTW, Drudge lists the death toll at 190+ now.
Posted by: reagan80 at July 12, 2006 04:14 AM (dFOlH)
Posted by: Jake at July 12, 2006 08:27 AM (CT8rN)
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What abuses are those, Will? Perhaps you are speaking of the perfectly legal and very successful financial tracking program that the NY Times decided was crucial for terroists to learn about? Yeah, that really helped the American people out didn't it? Or how about when NY Times reporters call suspected terrorists money laundering groups (otherwise known as Muslim "charities") and tip off planned FBI raid by means of the questions they ask? - I suppose that is "reporting" on abuse as well.
The MSM is a one-sided joke. And as you well know, Will, every credible study ever done on the media and its members demonstrates that an extreme left-wing bias exists. It is not something that can be debated. It is fact. By the way, how does NPR function now that Pravada is no longer around to provide its material? Do they check in with Castro and Chavez to make sure they are getting the story right - making sure all those "abuses" are being covered fairly?
This is kinda off topic, but how much you want to bet that the ever so fair and open-minded MSM will be doing its best to draw a moral equivalence between the Muslims human debris in Lebannon and "Palestine" and the Israel government trying to defend itself? You think the Muslim abuses will covered? Don't hold your breath. No, their abuses will be cloaked in language related to Jewish "oppression." I gurantee that any collateral damage caused by Israel in its defense will be covered and a fucking UN Resolution condeming it will not be far behind.
Anyway, say hi to Alice, the Mad Hatter,and the Red Queen. And remember: keep your head.
Posted by: blu at July 12, 2006 09:03 AM (mv0lx)
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"So an article like this can be viewed as an attempt to retain/enforce this scenario among those who already believe it."
sure it can, Will, if you want to ignore the point of the article.
Posted by: annika at July 12, 2006 09:55 AM (zAOEU)
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>every credible study ever done on the media and its members demonstrates that an extreme left-wing bias exists.
Please reference the studies you consider to be credible. Oh, and 'hi!'.
> sure it can, Will, if you want to ignore the point of the article.
The point of the article seemed to be advocacy for news organizations to perform covert operations, frequently in foreign countries. In other words, to investigate organizations that are currently under investigation by the FBI, CIA, and others. Though you criticized one news organization for doing just that. So now you are the one cornfusing me...
Do I think that exposing conditions at Abu Ghraib and similar situations was appropriate? Certainly. Don't forget, I became a Republican years ago because of liberal bias in the media.
Posted by: will at July 12, 2006 11:46 AM (GzvlQ)
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Annie:
Have you ever thought of being an appellate lawyer?
Your writing skills really make you a great candidate for that kind of a job.
Most of them never put on a suit or tie except to argue a cse in the court, opting for shorts and sandals, etc.
Give it some thought.
Posted by: shelly at July 12, 2006 12:28 PM (BJYNn)
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Will, Will, Will always so pedantic. There are a ton of studies - not that it is even necessary to cite them. Anybody with a 3-digit IQ who pays attention to the MSM know this. It reminds me of the Time cover that so astutely informed us stupid peasants that men and women are "different." Yeah, no shit Sherlock. That's kinda what I think when somebody says "the media is liberal."
Anyway, I just did a (literally) 30 second search and found a UCLA study cited in the Quarterly Journal of Economics at the beginning of '05 that found distinct liberal bias in the MSM. And guess what - it also found that FOX isn't nearly as conservative as much as the MSM is liberal.
If I say 2 + 2 = 4 will I need to cite a math professor to prove to you that I am correct?
Posted by: blu at July 12, 2006 01:02 PM (mv0lx)
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> Will, Will, Will always so pedantic. There are a ton of studies - not that it is even necessary to cite them.
Only trying to understand if you mean what you say or if you are loose with your words, which were, "every credible study ever done on the media and its members demonstrates that an extreme left-wing bias exists." This article does not support that assertion.
> it also found that FOX isn't nearly as conservative as much as the MSM is liberal
It doesn't actually say that. It says that, "The most centrist outlet proved to be the NewsHour With Jim Lehrer, CNN's NewsNight With Aaron Brown, and ABC's Good Morning America were a close second and third. The fourth most centrist outlet was Special Report With Brit Hume on Fox News..."
This seems to confirm my assessment of The NewsHour, which I like to either watch or listen to on the radio, depending on the day's schedule. But the actual metrics they use in the study are crude and ignore placement, emphasis, ommission, and order arrangement of compound statements joined with a "but". So while such a study can give the most rudimentary of indications, it completely misses subtle and not-so-subtle bias.
While there are many good discussions on this subject, I encourage you to read the wikipedia article on media bias and review it;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_bias_in_the_United_States
> If I say 2 + 2 = 4 will I need to cite a math professor to prove to you that I am correct?
You are attempting to overly stretch a metaphor as damage control.
Posted by: will at July 12, 2006 07:08 PM (h7Ciu)
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Hardly need to do damage control, Will. I told you that I found that one study in 30 seconds. No effort. And the point about Fox is that it is most certainly not as conservative as MOST MSN news media is liberal. To listen to some (and you've made this argument yourself), Fox is some right-wing version of Pravada. It is not. Indeed, it appeared to me that the researcher was surprised.
And, Will, I don't mean to underestimate you, but can you kindly tell me your credentials for determining whether a study is "crude." (For example, I have 4 years of graduate school and a career heavy in quantitative analysis. This doesn't make me a PhD in stats but it does help me be a good consumer of data.) I'm not going to go back and analyze this study because frankly I don't care. So, I can't refute your analysis of it as crude. You seem like a smart guy, so I'll take your word for it. Moreover, I know that my fundamental point is accurate. The MSM leans heavily Left.
You already knows this to be true, Will, but feel the need for somebody to go a find you a "link." So, I tossed out something I found in a few seconds that, "crude" or not," makes my point - as have numerous others. It's silly and, yes, pedantic. As silly as asking me to find a link demonstrating simple math.
The end.
Posted by: blu at July 12, 2006 08:15 PM (j8pkL)
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> can you kindly tell me your credentials for determining whether a study is "crude."
Simply put, they "tallied the number of times each media outlet referred to think tanks and policy groups, such as the left-leaning NAACP or the right-leaning Heritage Foundation." Fox is well known for selecting general quotes from left leaning organizations while selecting the most appropriate quote from a right wing shop. And it doesn't show how much time they devoted to one side or another, nor the credibility given by the journalist in facial and speech inflections. Note that I previously gave several other examples of metrics that would help to determine bias.
So by any measure, the UCLA metrics were crude. I invite you to speak in support of this study's approach, if you consider it to be a exemplar.
> I told you that I found that one study in 30 seconds. No effort.
And it wasn't hard finding the Wikipedia article either, though you haven't commented on it yet. Your original quote was ""every credible study ever done on the media and its members demonstrates that an extreme left-wing bias exists." I don't see that you've supported your assertion yet, only that you simply want us to believe "the MSM leans heavily left" now. If that's the case, the most Left wing MSM would be the Wall Street Journal, according to this study, which we know to be an absurd conclusion. And many MSM papers or news segments were determined to be neutral, so your blanket statement is not supported by the study you quoted.
Posted by: will at July 13, 2006 02:33 AM (h7Ciu)
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I take it by your response that you have no expert credentials in this area. Well, I guess then you are going to have to send me a link proving your analysis is correct. And since I do have the academic expertise to be a good judge, I'll decide whether your study actually holds water. Remember, I'll need that link....and, most certainly, another link to prove this statement: "Fox is well known for selecting general quotes from left leaning organizations while selecting the most appropriate quote from a right wing shop." Says who? Again, I'll be the judge as to whether any study is credible should you decide to present any links.
I'm certain that the Quarterly Journal of Economics regularly includes "crude" analysis. You might want to ask them to provide a link to demonstrate their competency.
And, finally, asking somebody to prove everything they say is simply silly on an internet site. Espeically when you have a tendency of demanding proof and then discounting whatever is provided. Tell you what, Will, you prove to me that the MSM isn't liberal. The overwhelming consensus is that it is. I've never seen any proof to the contrary.
Hint: busting out Wikipedia as a source probably won't score you a lot of points in academic circles. So, I'm going to have to insist that you do better. I'd prefer something peer reviewed if possible.
Posted by: blu at July 13, 2006 08:50 AM (mv0lx)
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Annika, it's true that the MSM was responsible for the deaths of these people, but they were not solely responsible.
The senators from New York should obviously be concerned about terrorist acts anywhere in the world. Why did they refuse to stop this carnage?
Similarly (or not so similarly), one would think that an organization with a name like "Focus on the Family" would want to protect families. Where were they when families were (literally) torn apart?
And don't get me started about the failures of the cast of Ocean's Twelve or Ocean's Thirteen or Ocean's Twenty or whatever.
Posted by: Ontario Emperor at July 13, 2006 02:12 PM (OeJic)
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> Well, I guess then you are going to have to send me a link proving your analysis is correct.
By all means, I'll be happy to provide you examples of criteria that can be used to assess bias. These will run the gamut from liberal to conservative examples, though the techniques they describe can be used independently;
http://www.globalissues.org/HumanRights/Media/USA.asp?Print=True
http://www.dallasmorningnewswatch.com/criteria.htm
> And, finally, asking somebody to prove everything they say is simply silly on an internet site.
I merely asked you to support your bold assertion, "every credible study ever done on the media and its members demonstrates that an extreme left-wing bias exists." You then provided an example that said that the WSJ was the most liberal MSM, even more so than CBS Evening News, the NYT, and the LAT. The most centrist outlet proved to be the "NewsHour With Jim Lehrer." CNN's "NewsNight With Aaron Brown" and ABC's "Good Morning America" were a close second and third.
> I'm certain that the Quarterly Journal of Economics regularly includes "crude" analysis.
Oddly enough, this was not an economics article, so you would need to ask them how they determined the veracity of the study based on the application of economic theory.
Still looking for your thoughts on the wikipedia link. Seriously.
Posted by: will at July 13, 2006 06:33 PM (h7Ciu)
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Is Castro Dead?
American Princess, and apparently
Jonah Goldberg have heard rumors. Nothing on Drudge yet. E.M. says she heard it from a Wall Street friend, as does Jonah. I checked the stock market and it did rally around 12:00.
Update: Still nothing from any reputable news source. Or from Drudge for that matter.
If it turns out to be true, I for one will question the timing. Is Castro's death simply the Bush administration's attempt to deflect attention away from their failure to unh...
Oh I got it. It's the Bush administration's attempt to deflect attention away from the impending indictment of Barry Bonds, who I hear, is a Republican.
Culture of corruption! Culture of corruption! Halliburton! Halliburton! Sis-boom-ba!
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If so, I hope it's declared a national holiday. In California, we are forced to pay for our lazy, unionized state workers to take a day off for a that fruit-picking commie, Caesar Chavez. I'd much rather have my tax money going to celebrate the death of a vile commie bastard and everything he stands for.
Posted by: blu at July 11, 2006 02:15 PM (mv0lx)
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Ah the wheels of justice grind exceedingly fine. No doubt he's finally chomped down on one of those salted CIA cigars. Hasta La Vista asshole. Give the devil my best!
Posted by: Casca at July 11, 2006 03:17 PM (2gORp)
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They will just break out FidelBot number 5
Posted by: k at July 11, 2006 03:32 PM (PwBqG)
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uuhhhmm that was me,
BTW Annika, Casca, and Shelly, what do you think about this years College Football? My pick to win it all is Notre Dame. They were dam good last year and return most everyone.
Texas and USC will both have new QB's so you might get a downturn there.
OS will be an offensive powerhouse but has a nearly all new defense, that could be trouble.
Miami will steal the ACC, but I predict a few losses.
SEC, too much parity, they will beat each other up as usual.
Posted by: kyle8 at July 11, 2006 03:36 PM (PwBqG)
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Bonds as a Repub reminds of a Charles Barkley story:
Barkley told his mother he was going to vote for a Repub. His mom said "Don't do it. They only pass laws that help rich people." Charles said "Mom, I am a rich people."
Posted by: gcotharn at July 11, 2006 06:44 PM (bkSeR)
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Bonds is a rebub? he better go dem like yesturday if he wants jese jackson to screan racism! Oh and Whats this college football crap??? Notre Dame??? Please how pathetic. Wait a minute......am I trapped in the 1960's?? Wisconsin Badgers all the way. You guys went to queer schools get over it!
Posted by: jeff at July 11, 2006 07:01 PM (njqFN)
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Castro was only taken down and Zidane did it!
http://www.babalublog.com/archives/003602.html
Posted by: jcrue at July 12, 2006 02:48 PM (ZDQoM)
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July 10, 2006
Nothing To See Here, Move Along...
From the
Houston Chronicle:
[A] man with a Middle Eastern name and a ticket for a Delta Airlines flight to Atlanta shook his head when screeners asked if he had a laptop computer in his baggage, but an X-ray machine operator detected a laptop.
A search of the man's baggage revealed a clock with a 9-volt battery taped to it and a copy of the Quran, the report said. A screener examined the man's shoes and determined that the "entire soles of both shoes were gutted out."
No explosive material was detected, the report states. A police officer was summoned and questioned the man, examined his identification, shoes and the clock, then cleared him for travel, according to the report.
A TSA screener disagreed with the officer, saying "the shoes had been tampered with and there were all the components of (a bomb) except the explosive itself," the report says.
The officer retorted, "I thought y'all were trained in this stuff," TSA officials reported.
The report says the TSA screener notified Delta Airlines and talked again with the officer, who said he had been unable to check the passenger's criminal background because of computer problems.
So what did they do? They let the guy on the fucking plane!
Now of course, since the plane didn't blow up we can assume one of three things: a) that it was a test run; b) that the plan involved hiding the explosive somewhere else on the plane, or with an accomplice who aborted the mission; or c) that this poor innocent man with the middle eastern name was unfairly hassled while scores of evil grannies were allowed to board the plane unmolested.
I tend to think that it was just a test of our defenses, since a clock and battery do not seem to be necessary components of a shoe bomb. In any case, I hope someone is raising holy hell over this incident.
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This country, led by the left and PC zealots, is well on its way to being lulled back into the a "9/10" mindset. Until another plane or building is blown up, we will continue to have people more worried about offending Muslims than stopping terrorists.
Yeah, somebody (or possibly many) better lose their job(s) and America better start waking up.
Posted by: blu at July 10, 2006 08:24 AM (j8pkL)
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Yes Blu,
Why not hang them? Airports have lots of exposed beams and rope is no problem in Houston once you scrape the cow shit off of it. And you must, because cow shit is giving off methane and that coupled with a hollowed out shoe, match book and duct tape are the makings of a bomb. Send that cowpoke to Cuba!
I think anytime a laptop, sneakers with holes in them and a travel alarm clock with a spare battery taped to it are in the same room together, or even in two different airports at the same time, the occupants of both airports should be sent to Gitmo as enemy combatants and put in a dark room for eternity.
Now that, Blu, would keep us safe and prevent us from the hedious 9-10 mentality where NO ONE had or could have imagined a plane flying into a building. Or where "determined to attack" mean't let's go on vacation.
Posted by: stawman at July 10, 2006 11:19 AM (G2Zzw)
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Hanging seems extreme, Straw.
I just say keep the fucker off the plane and asked him about his hollowed out shoes and alarm clock/laptop. Heck, you might even run a little background check since he felt the need to lie. I guess that might trample on his civil rights, however.
And, what's up with your too often bigoted caricatures regarding anything southern? It weakens your already weak agruments.
Posted by: blu at July 10, 2006 01:42 PM (iC+6O)
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Oh, Blu,
I love the south. The home of Nucular Fishing one of my favorite pastimes.
You are, however, correct. He should have run a basic background check. I, you will be surprised to hear, believe in the power of profiling in certain circumstances. I don't think it necessary to strip search every semitic looking person but I do think that it is a waste of time to search my parents when they travel or a charter of 16-18 year old girls going to St. Bart's for spring break.
Posted by: Strawman at July 10, 2006 02:48 PM (G2Zzw)
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Your mangling of "nuclear fission" was cute, 'Nam Warts.
Posted by: reagan80 at July 10, 2006 03:03 PM (dFOlH)
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I'd almost vote for option d) - just a crazy guy incapable of doing anything - but he wasn't quite crazy enough. He wasn't carrying a Playboy magazine, which he would use to select the appearance of his 72 virgins.
I happen to be of the belief that mankind is fundamentally incompetent. Richard Reid comes to mind, as do the Watergate Plumbers. There are probably clowns like this one who want to do something bad, but forget minor little details like explosives.
Posted by: Ontario Emperor at July 10, 2006 05:19 PM (FPdMX)
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Raygun,
I can't take credit. It was Lenny Bruce over 50 years ago commenting in a routine of his how SOutherners could be talking high energy physics and they would still sound dumb.
Posted by: strawman at July 10, 2006 07:22 PM (G2Zzw)
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Shouldn't we take a positive spin on this? I mean, we caught someone who appeared to possibly have a bomb. He didn't, so there's no reason to detain him, period. What this means, though, is that maybe TSA will keep doing a good job and in the future catch people who *actually* pose a threat, whether or not they are grannies, middle easterners, southerners, or midgets?
If he's not a threat, why detain him? Others in the future might be threats, and if so, we can hope they would be detained. But he didn't do anything illegal. If I wear a Freddy Krueger mask (all plastic, of course) onto the plane, I might scare people (little kids anyway) -- but I haven't done anything illegal. I cannot get behind detaining people because they scare us.
So I choose to look at the positive side of this -- they caught someone who might have been a bad guy, and did the right thing by letting him go. Now they'll be even more vigilant to catch actual bad guys. Seems like something both libs and cons can get behind, no?
Posted by: The Law Fairy at July 10, 2006 07:39 PM (954g7)
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You said 'fuck'! Don't worry, I won't tell.
Posted by: Kevin at July 10, 2006 08:21 PM (++0ve)
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well just for FYI the local radio and TV stations here in Houston are raising holy hell over this one.
But thats what you get in any job like that, a bunch of mindless "by the book" drones and farking bureaucrats.
BTW thats just the kind of people who strawdog wants running our Medical industry, and everything else really. As for Southerners sounding stupid, Uhh no not to us, Its the yankees with that nasal twing who sound stupid.
Posted by: kyle8 at July 11, 2006 03:38 AM (S9dGj)
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Ah Lenny, that epitome of wisdom.
Posted by: Stew at July 11, 2006 04:18 AM (2LMpg)
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Kyley,
"industry is the key word. I want medical care delivered without a profit motive. Medicare seems to be able to administer itself for less than 10 cents on the dollar and all the hospitals are getting paid, while the CEO of The Equitable flies each morning by helo to Hartford from Manhattan and gets 8 mill a year. WHo's getting taken care of and who's not. All that needs to be done id for the federal medical program that takes care of ALL federal employees and is not administerd by a private company, offered to ALL americans for a price that will keep the program solvent. Betcha, it cost less than your HMO, dosen't restrict you to plan doctors, provides wider coverage with fewer restrictions and pays doctors better rates than the current programs. Oh, it also won't make a lot of suits rich.
Posted by: Strawman at July 11, 2006 07:46 AM (G2Zzw)
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Straw,
That's called socialized medicine and it's a miserable failure everywhere it's tried. The quality of care is horrible and the system is inefficient. Talk to somebody from England or Canada about getting even basic surgery.
Why do you people always bring up the Medicare example? Because admin fees are low that means it is a good program? That's your main criteria for declaring success? The program is infamous for fraud and waste as is Medicaid (called Medi-Cal in my state.) And, on a philosophical level, somebody explain to me why I should have to pay for the health care of rich old people or, for that matter, lazy poor people? There is no fucking "right" to healthcare. BTW, should I be responsible for feeding them too? How about clothes? Hey Straw, should the government buy everybody a car too? After all, it is nearly impossible to exist in a modern society without a car. And you need to be able to communicate: So how about free mobile phones for everybody? Is anybody responsible for themselves, Straw?
Posted by: blu at July 11, 2006 11:09 AM (mv0lx)
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Blu,
Dopey, dopier, and stupid. I did not mention socialized medicine and your wish to construe single pay as socialized is just the red in your eyes blinding you. All delivery institutions remain the same as do private doctors and your option to opt out of the system so you can prove to yourself you are a self reliant man if you need that sort of thing.
Everybody pays and I will have a means test for social security as well as for the Fed MED Plan, no problem. Don't worry dear boy, you will never have to support someone with more money than you(like you don't do it now!) Yes there is currently fraud as there is with ALL large systems private or federal. Not an issue, just part of the cost of doing business.
This plan is insurance not care delivery. If a premium is charged where do you get off calling it socialized and where do i ever say there is a right to medical care? My business does not provide it and I think the American demand that it SHOULD be provided at work is infantalizing crap. I am however deeply concerned that there are not affordable alternatives for the worker who has 2 young children and one household income. DO the math BLu. I a guy earns 40-50 grand a year- housing in 1500 a month plus food, transportation and sundries how can a family of 4 also afford 1200-1500 a month for a family health plan? Impossible If this country is to consider itself a humane place to live it must not have 40 million people who cannot afford medical insurance and therefore become part of a forced socialized medical system which cannot deliver decent care. It will be cheaper if the feds provide affordable insurance rather than the free medical care it doles out to EVERYONE who is in poverty or claims to be. How many millions of people as they reach their 50-60's divest themselves of all assets so as to be eligible for medicaid and not have their life savings devoured by one hospital stay? A relative of mine in their 70's without insurance has had three major hospitalizations in the last 3 years. Total cost about 400,000.00 dollars. All paid for but about 5% by the feds and state. If they had an affordable policy and 40 million others did and the hospitals charged the real cost to deliver this care, not the inflated amounts that take into consideration all that they are not reimbursed for by the indidgent and the low medicaid rates, this whole mess might be cleared up and far better care delivered.
Ever been to an emeregency room at an inner city hospital Blu? It is the primary care facility for the poor who sit there by the hundreds, hour's on end with their feverish children, sprained backs, congested lungs from bacteria infections, infected ingrown toenails, etc. Isn't is far more cost effective for thse people to see private family practitioners in clinics and private offices with an insurance plan?
Whatever you want to call the plans of Canada, England, France, and many others, they do not force people into poverty before they offer them care.
Posted by: Strawman at July 11, 2006 02:19 PM (G2Zzw)
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Yes, I wish to consture single pay as socialized medicine. I suspect most Americans feel the same way. It is one of the reasons that this stupid idea is always rejected by Americans.
Do you really believe the level of fraud in medicare and medicaid are equal to that found privately? Nice try, Straw. But I call BS. The difference between you and me (besides the fact that I'm younger and smarter - just kidding) is that I've actually worked in and around government my entire adult career. And I've been involved at the local, state, and federal levels. Hell, I've even been a Medicaid analyst when I was young and stupid enough to work for a county. The amount of fraud in these areas is staggering and occurs at all levels.
And about this 40 million uninsured crap number - it is meaningless. Most of these people are young and single and choose not to purchase insurance. It is (as it should be) a choice. You and yours make it sound like there are 40 million people out there crying their eyes out because they have no insurance. It is not true. It is another silly left-wing lie to try and get more power and tax money into the hands of government. The more people you folks have on the dole the more power you have.
How can you be so distrustful of the government and still want it to control billions and billions of healthcare dollars?
Posted by: blu at July 11, 2006 03:02 PM (mv0lx)
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Blu,
I hear what you say. Though I am a woodworker I did spend 5 years working in the NYS Dept of Mental Hygiene and have some insight that is not filterd through saw dust into health care matters.
The negatives are not really a big concern of mine since the negatives of the whole system of delivery and afordability of health care drawf the problems of fraud. This is typically a RW paradigm: don't look at the deeper and more profound flaws in a system but rather focus on the bad dealings of a few. THis same cry was always heard around the welfare system. WOmen have extra babies to increase their benefits, women don't care to focus on bith control because the worst thing that can happen is a new kid and more money, women aren't looking for jobs because welfare is giiving them such a grand life. Talk about bullshit.
Blu, have you ever lived in a large city in the North?
The fraud and waste are in each realm different.
In the world of medicaid you have things like hospitals bliing for services they did not deliver, clinics making up patient records and billing and individuals doing the same things but on for smaller amounts. Remember the hospitals that commit the fraud are often private for profit corporations bilking the government. What is the percentage of fraudulant v. appropiate payouts? I really don't know do you?
In the system of insured health care as it now exits the 'fraud" take the form of profit. Every dollar that is removed from the system to pay sharholders dividends, multimillion dollar salalries and high operating costs is money that could otherwise be delivering care. I think Blu, if you totaled the fraud you experienced in medicaid and treated it as an administrative cost you would still be below the percentage that the private sector spends per dollar paid to providers.
I know a woman who delivered psychiatric services for a clinic that had a contract with a union to deliver mental health services. She had to quit because in every case meeting it was clear that limiting the number of sessions to be delivered to a client was a goal regardless of the medical need of the patient. The clinc contracted to provide a fixed number of sessions for a year to the union's health plan and every session under that number was additional profit and every one over was considered a loss. Blu, this is fundamentally wrong and it it the mentality that permeates all of the health plans in America.
WOuld you address the other issue I mentioned of impovershment before medicaid kicks in and the problems with the socialized medicine they now receive? I agree that there are many in the uninsured catagory that may be choosing not to sign up but i doubt the number is significant.
Posted by: strawman at July 12, 2006 08:13 AM (G2Zzw)
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Medicaid, in nearly all cases, is based on "deprivation," Straw. So, the idea of having to get rid of nearly all your wealth prior to services is rare - in fact in California it doesn't happen anymore.
And your paragraph on welfare is, frankly, a joke. It is another example of you having no clue about which you speak. Welfare pre-1996 was one of this country's most miserable policy failures. As demonstrated in numerous studies and by intellectuals as diverse as Murray and Moynihan, welfare was a disaster especially for American Blacks. The policy changes implemented in 1996 by the Republicans (and, of course, by "stick my finger in the wind and see which way it is blowing" Clinton) changed the old policy and is actually a huge success story. There were two fundamental changes: time limits and work. (You see, Straw, conservatives understand human nature, which is to take free stuff as long as somebody is willing to give it to you - especially if nothing is asked of you in return.) It takes too long to explain the policy at a lower level. You clearly, though, don't understand very well the mindset of the average welfare recipient. These people are, generally, lazy and unmotivated - and often times (pre 1996) were part of a generational legacy of welfare. It was indeed a lifestyle. And don't forget, though they did not receive much, they were/are provided free medical care, free food, and cash. No bad for doing absolutely fucking nothing.
Anyway, Straw, you can't BS me on these types of issues.
Posted by: blu at July 12, 2006 09:39 AM (mv0lx)
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July 09, 2006
Another Danish Themed Post
From the Wall Street Journal, a sensible Danish liberal:
Bjorn Lomborg busted--and that is the only word for it--onto the world scene in 2001 with the publication of his book "The Skeptical Environmentalist." A one-time Greenpeace enthusiast, he'd originally planned to disprove those who said the environment was getting better. He failed. And to his credit, his book said so, supplying a damning critique of today's environmental pessimism. Carefully researched, it offered endless statistics--from official sources such as the U.N.--showing that from biodiversity to global warming, there simply were no apocalypses in the offing. "Our history shows that we solve more problems than we create," he tells me. For his efforts, Mr. Lomborg was labeled a heretic by environmental groups--whose fundraising depends on scaring the jeepers out of the public--and became more hated by these alarmists than even (if possible) President Bush.
Read what Mr. Lomborg has to say about
priorities here. Good stuff.
via Shelly.
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Lomborg was neither an environmentalist nor a scientist, unless you want to consider his credentials as a political scientist. His material has been debunked and put to rest long ago.
http://www.sciamdigital.com/index.cfm?fa=Products.ViewIssuePreview&ARTICLEID_CHAR=FB7B4B3D-44D9-491F-A5A9-03E2C01909A
Posted by: will at July 10, 2006 08:52 PM (h7Ciu)
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A link to the full article;
http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleID=000F3D47-C6D2-1CEB-93F6809EC5880000
Posted by: will at July 10, 2006 08:54 PM (h7Ciu)
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Thanks for the link, Will. I will print it out and try to read it all.
By the way, just a friendly tip. I think your credibility is affected when you neglect to mention that the article you linked identifies Lomberg as a political scientist
and statistician. (In fact, the article places the word statistician before political scientist when identifying Lomberg's credentials.)
Either you didn't expect anyone to actually click the link, which i doubt, or you don't consider mathematics a field of science. Having taken a statistics course at Berkeley, and done poorly in it, I can assure you, it is a field of science.
Posted by: annika at July 10, 2006 11:09 PM (fxTDF)
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Annika, I was referring to scientists from the direct subject areas, such as climatology, biology, epidemiology, etc. Most scientists take statistics as a matter of course (as have I in my engineering education), and report their results with statistics as one tool.
While Lomborg has a doctorate in political science and has lectured on statistics as it relates to that field, he doesn't have any degrees in statistics or even math, hence my description of him still stands as accurate.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lomborg
Posted by: will at July 11, 2006 04:34 AM (h7Ciu)
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So let me get this straight. you are now disputing the accuracy of the article, which you linked in order to dispute the accuracy of the article I linked, because your article is about people who dispute the accuracy of the guy in the article I linked, who disputes the accuracy of findings by people like those in the article you linked. I'm cornfused.
Posted by: annika at July 11, 2006 06:53 AM (fxTDF)
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You pointed out the article I supplied a link to reported that Lomborg is a political scientist and a statitician. He lectures on statitistics, though has no degree in any field of mathematics. So to call him a scientist would be misleading, which was my original contention. If you read the rest of the wikipedia page, you'll see that there has been considerable back and forth on the veracity of his book, which the Demark Ministry of Science, Technology, and Innovation eventually concluded was not a scientific publication, therefore could not be reviewed and critiqued as such. You would need several days to labor through the critiques, responses, response critiques, explanations of data set variations, artful deflections, dismissive generalizations, etc, etc, ad nauseum, ad infinitum. I plowed through this a few months ago, and it was quite a rollercoaster ride. He makes some valid points, though ultimately he is shown to be slanting his overall thrusts to the detriment of his thesis statement. However, the general public knows little about the application of the sciences involved, and can be easily hoodwinked by soundbites from either side.
Posted by: will at July 11, 2006 07:29 AM (h7Ciu)
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If Dr. Lomberg's opinions can be dismissed because his PhD is "only" in political science, can I then dismiss Al Gore's opinions becuase he doesn't even have a PhD?
Posted by: annika at July 11, 2006 11:29 AM (zAOEU)
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Yes, "only" poly sci. Unless you are considering that a hard science.
You are shifting away from the original question with the remark about Gore, but I will be happy to provide you the answer;
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/27062006/2/entertainment-scientists-give-thumbs-al-gore-s-movie-global-warming.html
Posted by: will at July 11, 2006 06:51 PM (h7Ciu)
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Danish Torture Conviction Overturned
A victory in the little known case of Annemette Hommel, the Danish officer accused of "torture" at the Danish Contingent's Camp Eden in Southern Iraq.
Apparently Eden was no paradise for the detainees under interrogation by Hommel and four MPs. They had been subjected to the heinous torture of:
- having to sit down for a long time
- getting yelled at
- not getting a second glass of water when they asked for one
Danish blogger Exile
has background on the Hommel case.
She was tried here in Denmark in the full glare of the press and with indignant left-wing politicians screaming for an example to be made. 'War crimes!' they screamed. And it gave a perfect setting for a left-wing outcry against our participation in the 'invasion and occupation' of Iraq.
Though being found technically guilty of abusing prisoners, Annette Hommel was not handed any sentence, merely left to live with the findings of the court and a ruined career. She was not content with that and appealled the courts decision. And in my opinion, quite rightly so.
And Thursday,
Jyllands Posten's English language site reported that the Østre Landsret ruled in Hommel's favor.
Annemette Hommel and four other military police have been acquitted of breaking Geneva Conventions by the High Court of Eastern Denmark.
Hommel and the four others had been previously been found guilty by a lower court. Due to mitigating circumstances, however, none of them are facing jail time.
Hommel appealed the decision handed down by a Copenhagen court that convicted her of calling detained Iraqis names and expletives while forcing them to sit in stressful positions during questioning.
Following the first trial in January 2006, Hommel said she was pleased and satisfied with being acquitted on some of the charges but felt that the court has laid down an unnecessarily hard line on the other points.
'I can't live with that,' Hommel said after the first trial, adding that she had been convicted of something that was against her principles.
Hommel has yet to comment on the new, not-guilty verdict by the Eastern High Court.
I like Exile's final comment, which puts most of these "torture" cases into perspective:
No hooking their genitals up to car batteries then? No beatings with clubs or heavy duty electrical cable? No tools or other impliments of torture? No pulling of teeth or fingernails? No poking out of eyes? No beheadings?
No, none of that. That is what she went there to put an end to.
Indeed.
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No exposing her breasts?
Jeez, no wonder they didn't talk.
Posted by: shelly at July 09, 2006 11:21 AM (BJYNn)
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June 24, 2006
Hippies In Colorado
I don't know why, but
this story makes me laugh. Some choice excerpts:
"I had a shotgun or AK (semi-automatic weapon) pointed at my chest. (The officers) kept saying, 'We're going to shoot your (expletive) dog.' They made this woman cry - she was shaking," said Lobo, a Rainbow Family member.
LOL!
"They tried to trample us with their horses, and all we did was have our arms up in peace," he said. "I even pulled my pants down - which was probably indecent exposure - to show them I didn't have anything on me."
ROTFL!
"I've been here since Saturday, and I've already received three (citations). Look, I'm sick of being harassed. Just because I'm in the middle of the woods with a group of people doesn't mean I don't have a job, that I don't have a family and that I don't contribute to society,"
Bwahahaha!
"All they had to do was get a bullhorn and say 'We've got guns.' They shouldn't have pulled out their guns, that's not kosher, man,"
We are stardust, we are golden... we are picking a
different county next year!
h/t DPGI v.2
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Damn, I was in Durango, Co. last week, and one of the local cowboys there said an infestation of hippies had also appeared somewhere in the area, perhaps Telluride. We headed up that way, but never found the hippies, however, we did find a bunch of stupid liberals mucking up the place.
The scenery was great, but putting up with liberal assholes from California strained my last nerve, and a confrontation resulted in some hurt feelings, if not a bloody nose.
Posted by: jesusland joe at June 24, 2006 03:04 PM (rUyw4)
2
Sounds like a cult -- call Janet "torch" Reno, she'll know how to handle these losers ;->
Posted by: Purple Avenger at June 25, 2006 05:10 AM (M0Kdm)
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Yeah, this isn't really very funny. Authoritarian tactics on the part of the federal government, violations of the constitutional right to assemble... sounds like a laugh riot. Just wait until they're telling
you that you can't be where you want to be, for no reason, and that you must comply or be screwed by the legal runaround.
Posted by: Embryo at June 25, 2006 07:22 AM (sUWK+)
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you're right of course, embryo. i'm still laughing though!
Posted by: annika at June 25, 2006 07:50 AM (fxTDF)
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Be careful for what you wish for.
The Forest Service has dictatorial police powers in their protection of their land. The trees and the forest floor trumps all human rights. It was hippies that pressured the government to put these totalitarian rules into force in the first place.
Will these hippies now turn Republican?
Posted by: Jake at June 25, 2006 09:03 AM (r/5D/)
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Jake is right. The hippies are reaping what they have sown. What say you about that, Embryo?
Posted by: jesusland joe at June 25, 2006 03:27 PM (rUyw4)
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Jeebus, Embryo,
Are you saying the law in our National Forests should be ignored?
I think it should be pointed out how past experiences with the Rainbow Family have turned the locals against them. It's not like the Rainbows have be the best guests...
"The group, which bills itself as an alternative society for those who wish to leave the mainstream, has failed to sign a special-use permit required by the Forest Service for groups of 75 or more. As a result, rangers Monday barred people from the site and issued between 60 and 70 citations to some of the early arrivals.
Many residents and business people are worried that the trouble is just beginning.
"'When it's over, all that's left is going to be one square mile of feces,' said Alicia Spanhake of Steamboat Springs. 'I hate hippies.'"
source - http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_3960887
Posted by: jcrue at June 25, 2006 03:54 PM (Xk75c)
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My God, it is perfection. Hoist upon their own petards, these tree huggers now find out that the law applies equally to all. The very laws they forced into creation.
Doesn't the Forest Service know that they are "Liberals", therefore God sanctioned and created, and further exempt from these laws, due to their exalted status?
I guess not.
Posted by: shelly at June 26, 2006 02:29 AM (BJYNn)
9
Everyone's missing the true source of hilarity, courtesy Lobo:
I had a shotgun or AK (semi-automatic weapon) pointed at my chest...
Assault rifle, shotgun, cap gun...they're all the same to hippies. Betcha if one of us showed up at that camp w/ a Super Soaker they'd all piss themselves.
Posted by: Victor at June 26, 2006 08:07 AM (L3qPK)
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Ha ha, good catch, Victor! This is one of those stories that just keeps on giving(laughs, that is). Thanks, Annika!
Posted by: jesusland joe at June 26, 2006 09:37 AM (rUyw4)
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I swear I saw this on an episode of King of the Hill last week.
Hank Hill's solution was to make the "guests" of the park uncomfortable enough to leave. He convinced the park service to shut down the porta-potties and provitions stores (temporarily out of service). Once the hippies ran out of food, they just left.
Simplistic, I know. But it was still funny has heck. I love that show.
Posted by: Trint at June 26, 2006 10:27 AM (SlSdA)
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I live in Colorado and let me tell you, there's a lot of old stale 60's holdout ex-hippies running around. They definitely detract from the scenery.
And FORGET Telluride. To quote Yogi Berra, "Nobody goes there anymore- it's too crowded". I went once and was turned off by all the poseurs and street people and hippie scumbags and punks on skateboards.
These Rainbow people need to be hosed down, deloused, loaded on buses, and sent to effin' New Jersey.
Posted by: Barry at June 28, 2006 09:35 AM (kKjaJ)
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One edited story,with quotes taken out of context, and suddenly you're all experts?
Do some more reserch.
Posted by: t.d.steve at June 30, 2006 02:08 PM (pm8qO)
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Free to look like what you want or think what you want.
The "Government" does favor businesses over individuals everyday-the bigger the business the bigger the favors.
When the government=state favors business=corporations too much a state of fascism exists.
Do these people up there really hurt any business in colorado? Why does it seem that so many people hate so called hippies?
Posted by: libertyman at July 04, 2006 09:41 AM (dTaNx)
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Democrats Supporting The Doctrine Of Pre-Emption?
It's not unusual that I find myself disagreeing with a
democrat. But this time it's really ironic.
Former Vice President Walter Mondale says he supports a pre-emptive U.S. strike against a North Korean missile that is raising nuclear fears around the globe.
. . .
Mondale said on WCCO-AM Friday that the United States should tell North Korea "defuel that missile. It has three boosters. Dismantle it and put it back in the sheds. Because if you're getting ready to fire this, we'll take it out."
. . .
Mondale and other former top Democrats are convinced apparently that action is the key to ending the standoff.
"This is such a legitimate thing for the United States to do," Mondale said. "The nature of the threat is so serious that I think we should knock it out right there if they won't stop."
Didn't that guy die? Don't get me wrong, I'm glad he's still alive, but I though I'd heard that he died a while back.
I'm against shooting down the missile. Firing a test missile, assuming they aim it at international waters, is provocative as Condoleezza Rice said. But it is not an act of war. Shooting a test missile down is an act of war. We don't need to escalate this latest confrontation with North Korea into a hot war.
I'm not sure whether Mondale thinks we can shoot the missile out of the sky or whether he thinks we should hit it before it launches. In the audio, he said that
. . . one missile like the one that took out Zarqawi could take out this [the North Korean] missile.
I'll cut the old man some slack, but he seems to have forgotten that we used bombs to kill Zarqawi, not missiles.
Now if we were to blow up the test missile on the ground, we would ignite a shit storm of unimaginable proportions. North Korea would be able to claim justification for some kind of retaliation, and the world might start calling us the rogue state. I would not be surprised if the UN Security Council met to discuss sanctions against the US.
If we were to shoot the missile out of the sky, we'd run the risk that our anti-missile missile might miss. That would be worse than doing nothing. Our anti-missile technology is far from perfect. The task has often been described as "hitting a bullet with a bullet." If we were to try for the Korean missile, we could not afford to miss. And I don't care for the odds.
However, if we let the North Koreans shoot their wad, we can monitor its performance much better than even they can. We'll gain important intelligence on their capabilities, both in missile technology and in electronic missile tracking. (Since they'll be watching the missile, we'll be able to watch their radars.) Diplomatically, we can use their "provocative act" against them if and when we need international support for action in the future.
I say, complain about it, but if they're determined to test their missile, don't stop them.
h/t to Larry at Beth's.
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You're right, Annika. I never thought that the ramifications of stopping their missile would be that bad.
I'm confident that our naval missile defense systems would be successful in destroying the enemy missile, but not so much with our ground based defenses in Alaska.
Posted by: reagan80 at June 24, 2006 10:31 AM (qNzwM)
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the "world" already considers us the rouge state....
Still a missle is too showy. better it blow-up on the ground on its own. Of course if anything goes wrong with this test we will be blamed whether or not we actually do anything.
Then there is the question of what to do if they fire a missle at someone, or at us.
Posted by: Zendo Deb at June 25, 2006 04:00 AM (+gqOq)
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Lest one has spent some time around the oriental mind... allow me to lay out the calculus of the situation. We're not going to do anything because this administration understands the situation, unlike the Carterite fucktards so freely giving advice.
Who is threatened? The Japs. When they get scared enough, they'll develop a nuclear capability. Who will this threaten? The Red Chinese who clearly don't want this outcome. What will the reds do? Yank that little nehru jacket wearing motherfucker's chain. In the oriental world there is hidden meaning in all action, thus kabuki.
What is the hidden meaning in the NORKs dragging out their new toy and playing with it? They want to get one-on-one with the US in a meaningless negotiation ploy so they can extort money on the world stage like they've done with previous demoncrat administrations. Remember, they're a country without paved roads.
Posted by: Casca at June 25, 2006 07:54 AM (2gORp)
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I'd be more afraid if I lived in Canada or Mexico given the state of NK missile guidance technology.
Posted by: Col Steve at June 27, 2006 09:49 AM (eEgft)
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I just realized how many decades have passed. When Mondale first reached national prominence, staying at a Holiday Inn was a bad thing (although he changed his tune when Carter tapped in in '76). Now, people can solve world crises because they "stayed at a Holiday Inn last night."
Posted by: Ontario Emperor at June 27, 2006 11:03 PM (YKFRM)
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June 23, 2006
An Answer To Lukobitch

Update: More great photoshopping on this subject at Beth's and Darleen's Place. And of course at Michelle Malkin's, whose idea it was.
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That is so right Annika, and I am so stealing it, with full credit of course.
Posted by: LindaSoG at June 23, 2006 04:46 PM (GBBmd)
Posted by: Tuning Spork at June 23, 2006 06:20 PM (SgvHW)
Posted by: dick at June 23, 2006 07:25 PM (Em77H)
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Annika:
That is totally sidebar-worthy. You're a genius.
Posted by: Cassandra at June 24, 2006 05:31 AM (eKdAq)
5
no
you're a genius, Cassandra!
: )
Posted by: annika at June 24, 2006 08:13 AM (fxTDF)
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I just don't get all this talk about giving away our secrets and how the MSM is making us less safe. If our enemy is smart, cunning, committed, secrative, ready to give his/her, as Edgar tells us every chance he gets, then why the fuck can't they figure out that phone traffic and money traffic is traceable? I am only a few of those things and I know it. I knew it 40 years ago as an itinerant drug dealer. These brilliant strategists, diciplined and patient enough to plan for years and succeed in demolishing the trade center don't know these things? Horshit they don't. Is there anybody in this administration that is not a liar, indicted or convicted felon?
Posted by: strawman at June 24, 2006 10:10 AM (G2Zzw)
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Never underestimate the stupidity of most people, Strawman. You and I travel in circles where intelligence is a given, but out there in the rest of humanity, it's a different story.
Posted by: annika at June 24, 2006 10:46 AM (fxTDF)
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Yummy. I borrowed that cartoon for my blog, I hope that's okay...
Posted by: Rob at June 24, 2006 10:50 AM (Q2xwR)
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Annie,
Yes and no. Although to support you and dent my own case, I will share a story.
Years ago bookeeper of mine stole from me in various ways but the most amazingof them was when she took a check made out to the State of NY for taxes to a check casher rather than the bank, where with the cameras running, endorsed it "State of NY" and put it under the window to be cashed. As amazing the girl working the other side of that window gave her the money!
But then again I don't think this gal could lean to fly a 767 let alone get to the airport.
Posted by: strawman at June 24, 2006 11:09 AM (G2Zzw)
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I disagree. I think that many of these people are very sophisticated and very smart. Evil does not equal stupid. To think differently is the worst kind of hubris. (That's, by the way, what I love about the Left: they think they are ever so bright and soooo clever e.g. the disgusting slob, Michael Moore.) It gives our side the edge.
And, Straw, if you don't "get" why acts of treason are not important, then nothing I or anybody can say will make dent in your thick wall of purposeful ignorance.
Posted by: blu at June 24, 2006 11:45 AM (93GuQ)
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Interesting story, Strawman. When i worked in a department store, years ago, they arrested a girl who worked in the personnel department. She also had a second job as a bank teller. She was taking people's paychecks from the department store and depositing them into her own account at the bank. It amazed me that she actually thought she could get away with that, and nobody would figure it out.
Posted by: annika at June 24, 2006 11:52 AM (fxTDF)
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That is so great! I'm linking back to this.
Posted by: beth at June 24, 2006 09:53 PM (X6tm3)
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Blu,
Oh pa lease! Treason?
What did you disagree with? You agreed they may be evil, silly word to describe those committed to a cause, diminishes their purpose and substitutes something biblical which is not helping understand them and their motives, but I digress. They are smart so why do you think it matters that some simpleton plan of tracking is effective?
To inform the public that the administration is breaking constitutional guarentees is an act of patriotism not treason. Edgar will testify that ANYTHING the admistration does in the name of stopping the terrorists is legal, and to report on it makes us less safe-hence treason. He may be more evil than the other side and I truely fear his ability to degrade this nations purpose and values far mor than what an outside can do. Al Qaida may blow things up, kill soldiers and civilians but with their own hand they will never subvert the constitution and diminish this great nation the way those evil son's of bitches in the senate, house and white house have. 911 was a black day but far less black than what has followed.
Posted by: strawman at June 25, 2006 03:05 PM (G2Zzw)
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Straw,
With all due respect, you have no clue whether these programs "break" Constitutional guarantees. Your arguments almost always breakdown when you get into matters of law and fact.
In fact, Straw, impress us all with your Constitution knowledge. Tell me how these programs "break" Constitutional guarantees and then cite the case law to back up your argument.
I'm waiting.......
Posted by: blu at June 25, 2006 05:08 PM (b1ukN)
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p.s. While you are breaking out your old law school and/or grad school Con Law notes, perhaps you can also look up the definition of treason. Afterwards, perhaps you can explain how making State secrets public to the enemy in a time of war is not a treasonous act. I suppose if the NY Times had made public D-day that would have been OK with you. I mean, hey, the Press is the 4th branch of government, right? And, afterall, the public has the right to know.
Memo to the Left: We are at war. Time to "get it."
Posted by: blu at June 25, 2006 08:58 PM (b1ukN)
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Blu,
The short answer.
No declaration of war.
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
It is simple-
An executive branch that refuses congressional or judicial oversight is not entitled to call anything a "state secret" in my book.
I have no Con law or any other law books not having gone to law school, just an "advanced degree in woodworking, I ask you?" (Help, the movie).
Posted by: strawman at June 26, 2006 01:42 PM (G2Zzw)
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Actually, the authorization to use force that Congress gave Bush is de facto a declaration of war. The US is, legally, in a state of war.
Posted by: a guy in pajamas at June 26, 2006 11:29 PM (1dXXw)
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Pajama person,
With a new focus on the reasons for the Iraq war, some are questioning whether the war was legal. Under U.S. law, it was not.
The authority under which Bush purportedly acted to go to war in Iraq arose under “House Joint Resolution Authorizing Use of Force Against Iraq, October 10, 2002” (the Iraq Resolution). However, the ostensible "statutory authority" granted to the President to was conditional.
In fact, Congress specifically made that authority, if any, of the President to go to war with Iraq subject to the War Powers Resolution of 1973 (War Powers Act or WPA). The Iraq resolution was definite. “Nothing in this joint resolution supersedes any requirement of the War Powers Resolution.” The Iraq Resolution only granted the President the right to determine whether the standards required by War Powers Act Congress were met.
Posted by: strawman at June 27, 2006 07:42 AM (G2Zzw)
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Straw,
Please stop with all the pseudo-legal/constitutional analysis. You're embarrassing yourself. You don't know the first thing about this topic. Perhaps you can direct me to the ruling of a U.S. court that has estblished that the war is "illegal."
While you are at, you might want to contact Mr. Pollard's lawyers and let them know that in Straw's studied legal opinion that their client should be set free immediately. Heck, he only provided State secrets to an ally...and afterall there was "no declaration of war."
BTW, key word: "unreasonable searches...." It is very reasonable to track those dealing with terroists whose aim is to kill American lives and destroy American property. The President needs no special "permission" from the Congress to fulfill his duty as Commander-In- Chief.
Posted by: blu at June 27, 2006 08:56 AM (j8oa6)
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Blu,
What you seem to forget is that unreasonable means without cause. I suppose in your world all men or women walking down 5th are either terrorits or they aren't and there is only one way to determin it. Is the president upholding the constitution (that is his sworn duty not the protection of the united states) if he puts military checkpoints on 42nd street to search all who pass?
Blu, why is fascisim so near and dear to your heart? Or conversly, what scares you so much that you are willing to suspend your freedom and mine?
Posted by: strawman at June 27, 2006 10:17 AM (G2Zzw)
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Straw,
You make this too easy. First of all, can you even define fascism? Don't use terms you can't define or for which you have no intellectual intimacy. Just throwing out words like "cause" or "fascism" doesn't improve a sophmoric argument.
And, BTW, association with terroists or entities that support terroism provides the "cause" about which you seem so worried.
Posted by: blu at June 27, 2006 01:46 PM (j8oa6)
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Gee Blu,
This wasn't hard. Boy I love this kind of intimacy
A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism.
I lived through McCarthy and have more than a passing fancy with the tendencies of this Captialistic Republic to slip into belligerent nationalism and well racism, when has this country not been racist?. What was the House debating this afternoon? Flag burning so they coudld go home and campaign on their nationalism and against the Dem's for their lack of it. You think that a person who displays a message on a tee shirtr on his car's bumper ought to be forcebly removed from a campaign event on public ground? There are thousands of examples since the Bush brown shirts have taken over. They hate the free independent press because it shines a light on their dark secrets and plans, they think opposition to their criminal policies is treasonous, they act in secret, they continue to classify documents at a pace unknown before, they spy on Americans at home, they detain with out charge, they torture and murder, they use secret warrants to enter American homes and don't give notice, they consistantly retaliate against "enemy's" (Wilson/Plame), they
smear opposition candidates with lies and innuendo, they are using terrorism to scare the small minded (you) into thinking that our society is a little too free and it needs some paring down if we are to be safe. Blu you are the German who saw the chaos, economic depression and supposed communist/jewish threat in 1933 and said "Heil Hitler, give me some of that security, a job and the fine points of liberty be damned". Your wish to debate and acusations of my lack of scholarship are just fiddling whilst Rome burns.
You see what I see, but you think it is OK because you are frightened for America's safety, we are at war and these decisions don't effect you. You don't want to burn the flag, you wouldn't protest in the street against injustice if they took your mother away because she sent 100 dollars to the palestinian cause, you don't think the goverment is overrun by corporate interests, that congressman are lackeys to their funders, you don't have any desire to foment change, you are not a woman, black, an immigrant looking for work, a homosexual, you are not anyone who really has an intimate relationship with the bill of rights except in the abstract because as the fringes errode you are not affected. How many people do you know who have been harassed by the FBI? How many people do you know that could not work in this country because of what they believed? How many people do you know that gave their life fighting for this country or against tyranny? How many times have you been gased, beaten, arrested by the police for speaking your mind? Had a cop aim his gun at your back because you would not heed his warning. You are all weepy for the Chinese in Tienamin Sq. but had they been in the streets of DC you would have sat dispassionately in your room after the riot and brutality and parsed whether they had proper permits and were they fomenting violence or overthrow of the state or if they were agents acting on behalf of a foreign power, etc. A good German desparate for safety, prosperity, respect, a pound of sugar and some new shoes.
Posted by: strawman at June 27, 2006 06:06 PM (G2Zzw)
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June 21, 2006
What... The... FUCK?!
This has got to be a muhfukkin joke right?
Saudis Offered Scholarships for Aviation Courses in US
JEDDAH, 20 June 2006 — The Ministry of Higher Education and the General Authority of Civil Aviation are offering scholarships to Saudi men and women to study various majors related to civil aviation in the United States.
The forms are available online at the ministryÂ’s website until July 12 for both bachelorÂ’s and post-graduate studies. Nominations will be announced on July 31. Interviews will take place in August and final scholarship winners will be announced on Sept. 2.
The scholarships are available in majors such as communications, electrical and computer engineering, computer science, systems analysis, air traffic control, flight safety, and other majors related to the airline transport industry.
Applicants for the bachelorÂ’s program must have a minimum score of 85 percent in the science section and 90 percent in other sections, such as QurÂ’an memorizing, administrative and commercial sciences. [emphases mine]
I say again:
WHUT THE FUCK?!
Oh, I guess I shouldn't be xenophobic. Because Saudi universities are so well known for their pro-western curriculum. Student visas for everybody!
hat tip: Free Thoughts.
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I hope our administration won't let these scholarship recipients in to begin with, but then again, they let in that Yale-attending Taliban yak-fucker.
Posted by: reagan80 at June 21, 2006 06:56 PM (qNzwM)
2
The scholarships only cover instruction for takeoffs and flying. The scholarships do not cover landings.
Posted by: Jake at June 21, 2006 09:18 PM (r/5D/)
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While Saudi Air still needs to train pilots, the demand in the future will drop off due to the high cost of JP-5, JP-8, Jet-A, etc. So yes, this is an unusual initiative...
Posted by: will at June 22, 2006 12:12 PM (GzvlQ)
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Followup Question
Very interesting discussion going on in the comments section of
my poll on Hillary vs. Rudy for New York's electoral votes. You didn't disappoint me.
I think Rudy wins New York, running against Hillary. But it would be a squeaker.
Now let's throw a monkey wrench into the debate.
New York is 31 electoral votes. Assume Rudy gets the nomination, and wins New York. Look at this map of the '04 results. I say Rudy also wins "barely Kerry" Pennsylvania and New Jersey too. That's a 67 point switch!
I've never heard of a Republican "northern strategy," but with sixty seven points, Rudy could lose most of the Southern states and still come out ahead. (I also believe Rudy could win Florida, which was "weak Bush" last time only because of the northeastern transplants in south Florida. Add FL and you get a 94 point switch.) Hillary still wins the other Kerry states, but who cares?
Debunk my theory.
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Rudy, like McCain, has a problem only with the party insiders. If either gets the nomination, it will be a shoo-in.
I guess it depends on how badly we need to win.
Posted by: shelly at June 21, 2006 03:57 PM (BJYNn)
2
But who would be the 'insider's candidate.' It was GWB last time. McCain has made publicized vists to exGovernor Clements, who establihed the tipping pont to Republicans in Texas, also some wealthy potential backers in Dallas including the Wylie's who sabotaged him with clean air advertising last time, now it's all smiles. For some, McCain has hurt himself over immigration and his continuing bullheadedness with McCain-Feingold.
Posted by: michael at June 21, 2006 04:49 PM (9Pd11)
3
If you have a nominee who wins New York, Jersey's a gimmie. Pennsylvania's a tougher nut to crack. That's a heavily unionized state, which a Republican hasn't won at the dance since '88. If you win PA, you have Michigan, too, and then you have the makings of a board sweep, a-la '72 or '84.
If the Democrats nominate Hillary (which I still don't think they will), they get shut out entirely in the South. Unless the Republicans nominate a neandrathal like Santorum or Brownback, you clear the board against Hillary.
On the other hand, if the Democrats get smart and nominate Warner, that opens up the South and costs the Republican nominee - whoever that is - the industrial Northeast. Neither party has played a 50 state game in over 20 years. I think if the Democrats forced the GOP to fight a little in the South, the board game could be reversed. They hold what they have and make gains down there. I remember Carter and Clinton doing it that way.
Here's an interesting point to consider. Has anyone thought about whether McCain or Giuliani can open up the big casino of California?
As to the Republicans not having a "Northern stragegy", that was the only one they had between Reconstruction and the Great Depression. As a matter of fact, it was the only game they had, and they held the White House and Congress for most of those years. I could be wrong, but I think that Cleveland and Wilson were the only Democratic presidents between 1868 and 1932.
Posted by: skippystalin at June 21, 2006 05:17 PM (ohSFF)
4
I wouldn't be particularly happy to see either of them win.
Posted by: Matt at June 21, 2006 05:54 PM (8Fh8S)
5
"that was the only one they had between Reconstruction and the Great Depression"
no really?!
I was talking about a post-Southern strategy strategy.
Re California. As a Californian, I'll tell you it's inconceivable that any Democrat could lose it in '08. I don't care if they put up Kucinich, Cali is blue for the forseeable future. Part of the reason, which I heard from a party insider, is that the National Party refuses to throw away any money here. Cali republicans just don't deliver for them.
Posted by: annika at June 21, 2006 05:55 PM (fxTDF)
6
Shit anni, where's the love? Don't be a Cali R hater. It's the union thugs who own SF & LA. The rest of us are true blue all the way through. Until the day when the D's can't steal votes in the big cities, we're fucked. Although, there are two options; the federal election law requiring all voter records be digitized has kicked in which makes finding fraud a lot easier, and seccession. I'm ready to hook up San Diego, Riverside, & Orange Counties in the new state of Southern California, Mwahahahaha!
Posted by: Casca at June 21, 2006 07:27 PM (2gORp)
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How about Guliani with George Allen as VP? It throws a bone to the more conservative wing of the Republican Party, and somewhat cancels the effects of a Warner candidacy in Virginia and the rest of the South---thus, balancing the ticket geographically and ideologically. Personally, I think Rudy is already running, and that he will win. I think Allen is very underestimated, but his cowboy schtick bears a little too much resemblance to Bush for today's policital environment for him to win the Presidency this time around.
Posted by: DBrooks at June 21, 2006 07:39 PM (w6ScD)
8
Believe it or not, I believe that CT will vote for Guiliani over Hillary. Game. Set. Match. Hillary wont even take her "home state" of New York.
Pffffttt...
Posted by: Tuning Spork at June 21, 2006 08:52 PM (j8mJI)
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Annie - I don't think one can generalize a Hillary-Rudi matchup to a larger electoral strategy. If you believe in polls, Hillary has a polarizing effect - higher absolutely yes or hell no ratings than any other candidate. If Rudi can survive the nomination and get the hell no voters to show up, then he'll probably win. He was smart to stay out of this administration and Congress as most of the other candidates will have a twistable record of votes on polarizing issues like immigration and Iraq. Warner of VA might have a shot similar to 1976 unless it's Rudi. I don't think you get many situations similar to what seems to be forming in 08.
Bottom line - If Hillary gets the nom, I'd be trying to get state committees to get a host of initiative/referendum type items on the ballot to draw the marginal hell no voter out.
Posted by: Col Steve at June 22, 2006 01:21 PM (pj2h7)
Posted by: Radical Redneck at June 23, 2006 07:48 AM (vElSn)
11
Rudy's first wife was his second cousin. That will guarantee him 100% of the Arkansas, Alabama, Mississippi vote.
Posted by: Radical Redneck at June 23, 2006 07:50 AM (vElSn)
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June 20, 2006
Taliban Evil Cowards
From the
Times of London:
Taleban fighters used women and children as human shields as they tried to escape into the mountains of Afghanistan, British troops claimed yesterday.
The tactics were revealed in the first account by those who fought in one of the main battles faced by the men of 3 Para and the Royal Gurkha Rifles in Helmand province, where 3,300 British troops are stationed.
The TalebanÂ’s use of human shields happened during a six-hour battle that began when British troops arrived in a remote area to flush out a suspected Taleban hideout.
They came under attack seven times and fired 2,000 rounds as the rebels set ambushes and opened fire with rocket-propelled grenades. About 21 Taleban were killed.
“It happened twice where they pushed women and children in front of them. The first time they ran into a compound and pushed them out the front to stop the assault,” said Corporal Quintin Poll, 29, from Norfolk.
“The second time they were firing through a building with women and children inside. My guys had to go around the left and right to get them.”
This occurred during some very ferocious fighting.
The fighting was so intense that rounds set fire to nearby wheat fields. At one stage Private Bash Ali, 20, from London, was hit by a bullet from a Kalashnikov assault rifle. It lodged in the spare magazine of his SA80 rifle, around his waist, setting fire to a tracer round.
“I was going around a corner hearing fire and didn’t know where it was coming from. The next thing I knew I fell to the ground. I thought I’d been hit by an RPG. I was dazed and was pulled into cover by a comrade,” he said.
Apache helicopters and A-10 tankbusters were called in to provide air support and at one stage raked a compound housing militants with their 30-millimetre canons.
“The guys were superb. I left the day with a huge amount of pride,” said Major Will Pike, 36, who has been in the Army for 14 years and said that this was the fiercest day of fighting he had ever seen.
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Question For You
Half of the reason I write this blog is to sample opinions from a wide variety of really smart people, that's you.
So here's a question I was thinking about today, which I haven't seen addressed anywhere.
What do you think?
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1
The question begs a simple truth. Rudy can not win the nomination. Give me a GOP candidate who can carry the red states. They are our salvation.
Posted by: Casca at June 20, 2006 09:07 PM (2gORp)
2
Okay, assume he wins the nomination. What do you think?
Posted by: annika at June 20, 2006 09:59 PM (fxTDF)
3
Can some one explain "why Rudy can't win the nomination?"
The big states - where he would be expected to do well (California, New York, Florida) - have the most delegates. New Hampshire allows independents to vote, so he'll have the early momentum. Every poll conducted in the last four years shows Rudy winning in a landslide. He'll also raise a lot of money early on which would allow him to "survive" the states where he is predicted to not do so well - and again, which states are those, exactly?
And any answer including the phrase "conventional wisdom" will be disregarded.
Posted by: KG at June 20, 2006 10:38 PM (hyH5v)
4
It is said Rudy cannot win the nomination b/c he is pro-choice. IMO, this is Dem wishful thinking, and Dem projection of their own rigidity. Pro life people - such as myself, are accustomed to living with pro choice law. Abortion is not the end-all/be-all issue of all time. There are lots of ways to work on saving lives: national defense, crime reduction, reducing auto accidents, reducing heart disease, et al. Abortion ought not be the narrow focus of one's attentions. Such narrow focus persons are properly labeled zealots. We cross the street when they are coming our way.
Red State evangelicals - and I am one, love Giuliani's toughness on national security. We love his seemingly impossible triumph in cleaning up NYC. These things will trump abortion.
The "tolerant" left will make much of Giuliani's history of personal peccadillos. The tolerant left doesn't understand red state evangelicals. We know - as well as anybody, that everyone falls short of the perfect glory of God. Giuliani's personal life will not be an issue. In fact, it is almost a plus. Rudy is wiser for having come through difficulty. It gives him a bit of a grizzled aura - like a Willie Nelson, or like Ann Richards, who came through drug abuse, and emerged wiser and more human for having done so.
Rudy's Catholicism will be a very small issue, because religious bigots make up a very small % of our number.
I would enthusiastically support Rudy Giuliani for POTUS!
Posted by: gcotharn at June 20, 2006 11:22 PM (YiXap)
5
As of this moment, I am the only person casting a vote for Hillary Clinton in your poll.
Assuming that Hillary and Rudy both get their parties nomination - a requirement for the set-up for the question, I am confident that Hillary would edge out Rudy for NY's electoral votes. Both Hillary and Rudy are well regarded in NY, but Hillary plays for the same team as most voters in NY. You would have to have a significant number of defections of Democrats from Hillary to Rudy for Rudy to win. I just don't see that happening in the charged political atmosphere that is NY politics.
Posted by: The Maximum Leader at June 21, 2006 06:58 AM (jiSuM)
6
i don't know what the answer is, which is why i asked. But wouldn't most liberals in NYC remember what it was like before Giuliani, when they couldn't ride the subway, or walk in the park after dusk, or get an apartment above the 80's?
Posted by: annika at June 21, 2006 07:40 AM (zAOEU)
7
I agree with Gcoth: unless all the polls I've read are completely off - and let's all admit it is very early to give them maximum credence - Rudy is the strongest candidate besides Condi. I would much rather see a seasoned executive who understands national security, and who has actually managed the nation's largest city (is LA bigger now?), than some southern Senator who has been part of the recent wave of disgraceful GOP spending. I hear a lot about Romni, but I think the Mormom-thing is a much bigger anchor than, for example, Catholicism. In my opinion, I think most Evangelicals see Catholics as fellow Christians. This is not the case with Mormoms, who I think they see more like Jehovah's Witnesses i.e. a very different theology. Still, he is an impressive speaker with a lot of presence. Anyway, I'm pulling for Rudy. I want the '08 candidate to be focused on national security and economics rather than abortion or gay-marriage. I know these are important to some conservatives and I respect those feelings; but they are not my issues. I am a little more worried about AQ blowing shit up than about Adam and Steve shacking up.
I voted with ML. In a head-to-head with very strong candidates, I think you have to go with the one whose party controls the state. Still, I have no clue as to NY politics and the intensity of like or dislike for each, so I'm just guessing.
Posted by: blu at June 21, 2006 08:40 AM (j8oa6)
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Rudy got my vote. I'm sure the NY'ers would trust him over Hillary regarding national security issues.
"I want the '08 candidate to be focused on national security and economics rather than abortion or gay-marriage. I know these are important to some conservatives and I respect those feelings; but they are not my issues."
Quoted For Truth, Brother.
Posted by: oreillyat7@yahoo.com at June 21, 2006 09:33 AM (IEZsZ)
9
Oddly, I disagree with my friend the Maximum Leader. I think the 2000 senate campaign is instructive in why. When Rudy was in the race, Hillary never lead by more than 6 points, and, through most of it, they were running even.
Keep in mind, this was while Giuliani was having a very public affair, his wife was running around in the
Vagina Monologues, and finally kicked him out of Gracie Mansion altogether. Also, and people forget this, Rudy couldn't get out of bed in the morning without enraging New York's black population. And she
still couldn't gain by more than six. Were it not for the cancer, I still think she would have lost that race.
Remember also that this was 18 months before 9/11. Giuliani has practically been sainted since.
Hillary has only complicated her own position lately. In trying to lock up the nomination, she's moving toward Joe Lieberman's position, which is only antagonizing the left wing of her party - which actually decides the nomination.
If some miracle happens and Hillary wins the nomination, New Yorkers will remember that Rudy, besides being the hero of 9/11, is also pro-choice, pro-gay rights, and pro-gun control. I'm not sure how those positions will play out in the rest of the electoral college, but Rudy's a comfortable choice for New York.
In fact, you could see a general election where Hillary runs to Rudy's
right in a craven attempt to peel off a few red states. At least, that's what I'd do. On the other hand, I'm smart and she's not. There's nothing Hillary won't do with a sledgehammer that couldn't better be done with a scalpel.
Posted by: skippystalin at June 21, 2006 10:41 AM (ohSFF)
10
Rudy can't win the nomination because primary candidates are elected by the party's true believers, and we are the party of ideas. The Rudy for Prez camp is simply too young to remember Nelson Rockefeller, and ideologically Rudy is the modern iteration. Any moves to win California or NY will only piss on the ardor of the base.
Posted by: Casca at June 21, 2006 10:58 AM (rEC2k)
11
Casca,
You are right about Rockefeller: I don't remember him. What I know about him, I've read. When I do hear other Reps speak of him, it is never good. Bascially, what I know about him is that he was a social and, more importantly, fiscal liberal.
I believe that the Rep party was much more liberal 30 or 40 years ago than it is now. So, even a "moderate" Rep today is unlikely to embrace the fiscal liberalism of a Rockefeller. So, I don't think the comparison between Rockefeller and Guilliani is convincing. Rudy is not viewed as some pansy liberal. He is viewed mostly as a crime fighting mayor, and a guy that showed tremendous leadership after 9/11: He "gets" the GWOT. And that is (or at least ought to be) the most important issue to Reps and "true believers."
Reagan paid his dues to Christian Right by giving religion its due respect (don't fool yourself into thinking Reagan was some big "born again") and its rightful place in the public square; but, his most important role was as the man who took on communism. If Rudy can use this sort of a model (replacing communism with Islamofascism), he has a chance, in my opinion, of winning in Red States.
I hope our party is more interested in the right kind of leadership in a Post-9/11 world than in ideological or religious purity.
Posted by: blu at June 21, 2006 11:24 AM (j8oa6)
12
In the words of Chairman Bill (Buckley that is), "One should never argue transubstantiation with an alter boy."
Posted by: Casca at June 21, 2006 01:36 PM (rEC2k)
13
While I hate to say it, I think Casca's right. While Rudy would make a great general election candidate, it's not the general election voter who decides who wins the primary. You only have to look as far as California to see that. The Republicans of California would have continued voting for "real" Republicans (who didn't stand a chance of winning the governorship) in the primary for years to come. Arnie got through only by way of the special election.
Rudy G.'s Catholicism has nothing to do with it. His pro-choice and pro-gay leanings--and his tendency to dress in drag on Saturday Night Live--do. And I say this as a pro-choice, pro-gay, drag approving guy. It's just that we don't carry much weight in the primaries.
I'd also have to agree with Maximum Leader that Hillary would take the vote. Skippy Stalin brings up some very interesting points about the last go around, but during the last go around large swaths of New York City (and other parts of the state) weren't gripped in a Bush/Republican hating fury that propels them to the polls lest their heads explode.
Then again, Rudy does have some 9/11 good will still under his belt.
Posted by: JD at June 21, 2006 01:49 PM (xD5ND)
14
The last time I checked, "the base" (which, as you might know, is the English for al-Qaeda. Really, it is. Check) isn't all that fond of President Bush, either. However, they used to be, which I can't figure out because he was
never much of a Republican. Bush isn't so much a Rockefeller Republican as much as he is a Johnson Democrat. The only exception being that LBJ passed significant, transformative things like the Civil Rights and Voting Rights Acts. Bush spent a ton of money on No Child Left Behind, which only encouraged the states to lie about homicidal teenagers, and a trillion dollar pharmaceutical giveaway. Oh, I almost forgot, 43 fights wars like Johnson did, too. George W. Bush decries "big government" as he increases its size more than Clinton, Carter and Johnson did
combined.
A Rockefeller Republican (without the unfortunate drug laws he passed in New York) might just be a nice change at this point. Frankly, what I'd prefer is a good, old-fashioned Barry Goldwater.
Goldwater was the ideal Republican. He knew that the government that shouldn't get in your 401K should stay out of your pants, as well. He knew what a small government was designed to do, pave roads and kill foreigners. Goldwater couldn't give a shit about abortion and he actually
supported gays in the military. And Goldwater's 42 year-old proposal to make Social Security voluntary is STILL more conservative than Bush's illegal scheme to turn it over to Wall Street. If he were alive today, Barry Goldwater would kick President Bush in the balls for calling himself a conservative, compassionate or otherwise.
Rudy Giuliani is, if anything, a Goldwater dressed as a Rockefeller. Yes, he pisses off the Jesus crowd. But the Jesus crowd is pissed off at Ronald Reagan and George W. Bush for not personally assassinating abortionists and re-criminalizing homosexuality regardless of what the Supreme Court and the Constitution says. "The base" is going to be forever furious at whoever the Republican Party elects, because the Republican Party continues to stubbornly insist on electing somewhat practical politicians.
You speak of Rudy's supporters being "too young" to remember the history of the party. Okay, let's explore that history.
Historically, the base of the Republican Party was the Eastern and West Coast business establishments. From time to time, they would win the farm belt and the industrial midwest. Southern Evangelicals - what is currently "the base" - were solidly Democratic before 1972. When they became sufficently annoyed with JFK and LBJ, they voted for George Wallace. Why? Because the Democrats were the "state's rights" party of slavery, segregation and stupidity before then.
Ronald Reagan co-opted the formerly segregationist religious right by taking up the mantle of abortion, knowing that there wasn't much he could do about it. The religious right was also dumb enough to fall for it, despite the fact that Regan had signed the most liberal abortion law in America when he was governor of California.
But the evangelicals fell for it, and they've continued to ever since. Republican presidents have kept proposing silly constitutional amendments on abortion, flag burning and gay marriage that everyone knows will never pass despite Republican majorities in both houses of Congress.
If Evangelicals were halfway smart, or the Republicans were halfway honest, they would just admit that they have a relationship based entirely on lies.
FDR's coalition was based on the civil rights movement in the North, Segreationist South and the union movement. It lasted for a grand total ot forty years, despite the obvious cross-purposes at which they were working. Republicans eventually became adept at exploiting the intellectual schism in the Democratic Party. Who can say that the Democrats won't eventually get just as smart at ruining the Republican internal divisions?
At some point there's going to a Strom Thurmond-style walkout at a Republican convention. I would posit that the sooner that happens, the better. And I think that anyone who values at least SOME honesty in politics, particularly the Evangelicals, would agree.
Posted by: skippystalin at June 21, 2006 01:55 PM (ohSFF)
15
Gee skippy, BLAH BLAH rockefella, Blah Blah, Jesus crowd, Blah phukin blah.
My eyes glazed over. There is only one thing Rudy has to do to stay the front runner (besides campaign) and that is to announce he will appoint strict constructionists to the court.
Which by the way he has already done, more or less. He came out in favor of Alito and Roberts (strongly) because they were strict constructionists.
Unlike Skipster, I think most Republicans who are social conservatives understand that the courts are the only thing a president has to do with most of those issues anyway.
Posted by: kyle8 at June 21, 2006 02:34 PM (+DxEp)
16
Casca,
I prefer your ad hominems when they are aimed at Straw. But, hey, I can take it.
I guess we will take up this argument in '07 and then see who the alter boy really is. I'd rather be right than clever.
Posted by: blu at June 21, 2006 03:03 PM (j8oa6)
17
SkipS,
Where do you place the rise of the neo-cons in your timeline? Many of the founders of the movement are Jewish and come from the Civil Rights era.
Posted by: blu at June 21, 2006 03:17 PM (j8oa6)
18
Kyle,
If you were paying attention, you may have noticed that "strict constructionists on the court" is where the lie between Republicans and conservatives began and ended. Since 1969, Republicans have appointed 13 Supreme Court Justices. The Democrats have appointed a mere
two ......... That's right, TWO!
Now, there ARE a couple of possibilities why SCOTUS decisions haven't gone your way. I'll explore them.
1) They made a secret deal with the Mason, communist hordes in the Senate who confirmed them.
2) The ghosts of William O. Douglas, Hugo Black and Earl Warren haunt the conference until the bench gives them the decision they want. C'mon, everyone knows that Republican appointees are afraid of the occult generally and ghosts specifically.
3) Ruth Bader Ginsberg sways the majority by showing a
lot of leg.
4) "Strict constructionism" is just another empty platitude that craven politicians throw at easily mislead voters on both sides.
You decide which.
Posted by: skippystalin at June 21, 2006 04:32 PM (ohSFF)
19
Blu,
Thank you for impying, if not actually saying, that I thought Republicans were racist. That's because I never implied or said either. That's not to say that both Republicans and Democrats alike haven't exploited race. You'd have to be a child to believe that either hasn't.
As to the NeoCons, yes, they were mostly from the Civil Rights era. In fact, this because they - Paul Wolfowitz foremost among them - used to be Scoop Jackson Democrats.
As a matter of fact, I don't often use the phrase "NeoCon" because the left has made it to be a cathch prase meaning "filthy Jew." I find the implication distasteful, so I try to avoid it.
But if you were to examine the intellectual foundation of their foreign policy (and really, they haven't weighed in on any other kind of policy), you quickly find that it is based on the same Wilsonian nonsense that the Repubican Party spent nearly a century running away from.
Woodrow Wilson believed that you imposed an artificial democracy on a people (and an imposed democracy is by definition artificial), a Thomas Jefferson will rise from the horde and create a brotherhood of man. This was attempted in the wake of World War I and here's what it created, Yugoslavia and ..... Iraq.
Those countries have been with us in a nasty, un-democratic way ever since. In fact, this generation of Wilsonians believe the same things as the first: if you ask them nicely enough, people who hate each other will become a Coke commercial from 1976 and teach the world to sing in perfect harmony.
The NeoCon movement is what the Salvation Army would be if they were given real guns and a worse attitude.
That has nothing to do with them being Republicans or Jews, but it has a lot to do with them being wrong about virtually everything.
Posted by: skippystalin at June 21, 2006 04:54 PM (ohSFF)
20
Heh Blu, I love you, but you're reasoning is jejune here. Besides, an ad hominum attack would be directly personal, i.e. you're a shithead. What I engaged in was elegantly telling you that you're wrong, and I didn't have the time to explain why. Now go in peace.
Posted by: Casca at June 21, 2006 07:33 PM (2gORp)
21
Hey SkipS,
I absolutely was not implying that you were racist. A thousand apologies if I gave that impression. I'll keep an eye on my writing and context because I don't think there are any racists on this site. If there were, we (Left and Right included) would run them off. Hope you believe me and accept my apology.
I mentioned the neo-cons because you left them out. I mentioned the early pioners (e.g. Irving Kristol) were Jewish to contrast them to many on the Right that are Christian - as you noted in your earlier post. Hope that explains what I meant.
Peace.
Posted by: blu at June 21, 2006 08:30 PM (93GuQ)
22
Live long and prosper, Casca. You still make me laugh more than anybody else on the site.
Posted by: blu at June 21, 2006 08:32 PM (93GuQ)
23
I just went back and read some of the longer posts. You know, the ones with more than twenty words. "Blah, Blah, Blah" lmao Kyle, tou-fucking-che! BTW, when IS Kick-a-Canadian Day? It MUST be soon!
Posted by: Casca at June 21, 2006 09:43 PM (2gORp)
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