Update: As always, I recommend you check out The Princess.
Back in 1994, we made a deal with their devil to allow them to seek out "enrichment" and nuclear technology--even to assist them in building reactors--so long as they made the Scouts Honor promise to use it for good and not for evil. We agreed to lift the sanctions that the government said was "harming" their population beyond repair, to the point where children and families were starving in the streets. We assumed that they would collapse as a government long before this moment, when a bomb equivalent to 15,000 tons of TNT explodes underground. We gave them plenty of money, plenty of resources, engaged in talks with them as though they were a legitimate nation, like Germany or England, and all the while, they understood our motivations and secured themselves agains that. We were the stupid ones; they wouldn't let their regime fail, and they would certainly not allow our money to go to the projects we had designated. Instead, the international community, lifted the sanctions on their end, poured money into a nuclear program, and the results? A nuclear bomb, and a starving people. One step ahead for them, one giant step back, for us.
Many are suggesting this emerging situation reminds people of President Bush's strength, or at least will increase his approval numbers. I suppose this is because his numbers go up when we get a reminder that Radical Islamists are still out there and want to kill us. I'm not so sure that's the case here--what this situation actually reminds me of is the failure of the Bush administration to properly deal with North Korea. Yes, the Norks established their nuclear program under Clinton . . . but President Bush has now had six years to deal with it, and not[h]ing has been accomplished.
Yes, Bush's Korean effort has been a failure but don't start thinking that Kerry's unilateral fetish would have produced a different outcome. I think Madeline Albright proved the ultimate value of that nice piece of paper signed by a tyrant after successful unilateral negotiations.
Posted by: Kevin Kim at October 09, 2006 07:26 AM (1PcL3)
2
Hell, you can make a good case that our Korea-policy went South when Ridgeway replaced MacArthur.
Posted by: Casca at October 09, 2006 08:48 AM (Y7t14)
3
What's the stick that we could have used over the past 6 years? Clinton et al fucked us in the 90's, and I don't know what could have been done after that screw job. The U.N. has been unwilling to do anything - (well the Chinese have been unwilling to do anything.) Will that change? What are we going to do - sanctions so all their people can starve. The Dog Eater doesn't care if his people starve anyway.
Watch the MSM try to resurrect the Clinton's again. They give us the problem, but somehow the MSM will manage to blame Bush. Count on it. In the next couple of weeks, the stupidest person ever to hold the office of Sec of State, Madeleine Albright, will be held up as an "expert." Every time you see her lips move remember that Barbara Boxer is probably brighter.
Posted by: blu at October 09, 2006 09:55 AM (hXbaB)
4
BREAKING NEWS:
HILLARY BLAMES BUSH FOR N. KOREAN NUCLEAR TEST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by: blu at October 09, 2006 11:30 AM (hXbaB)
5
I'm pretty sure Nippon still has some old topos and grid overlays. All they need is an overhaul of their constitution and...........
They're by no means an Asiatic Israel, who we can count on to take the DPRK's program out, but the last thing China wants is for N.K. to prompt a massive remilitarization of the 2nd largest and most technologicaly advanced Asian economy.
There's a good chance that could happen and China may decide to pull the reins on that little Gargoyle....at least temporarily.
Posted by: Jasen at October 09, 2006 05:39 PM (dGhSN)
6
See, that's the beauty of it. President Bush isn't actually on the ballot. Kim and the Iranian Mullahs love Bush because he's done so much to enhance their international stature and their domestic support.
But the testing this close to an election leaves the president in office, while neutering him politically. A best case scenario.
I despise the Democrats, but arguing that you need Republicans in office because the last six years have brought you a nuclear North Korea is a laughably difficult case to make. Besides, Mark Foley is more than enough bad news for the GOP right now.
Kim is nuts, but he's still pretty smart. After all, he's managed to play his neighbours, all more powerful than himself, off of each other for years.
And now we might just find out that President Bush isn't the only one capable of affecting regime change.
Posted by: skippystalin at October 09, 2006 11:26 PM (IanE0)
Wednesday is Poetry Day: Bernie Taupin
One of the first albums I ever bought (waaay back when CDs were called "albums" and they were huge, delicate things stamped on black vinyl) was Elton John's Captain Fantastic and the Brown Dirt Cowboy. My best friend Dave had a copy of it, and I liked it enough to save up my allowance and buy it. I probably bought it for one song; The moderately-hard rocking (Gotta Get a) Meal Ticket. I mean, the rest of the album was good, but that song rocked! Moderately.
As I grew older, I came to appreciate the album for more than that song. Maturity changes one's point of view, and songs that meant one thing suddenly mean something else five, ten, or thirty years later. I'm almost ashamed to admit it took me about thirty years to finally realize what one of Bernie Taupin's best poems was about, but better late than never, eh?
(I think. I mean, it's all in the interpretation, isn't it?)
The poem/song is called Writing and it's a beautiful little song. The junior-high school kid who bought this album was probably bored by this song about two people writing a book or something, with its cutesy lyrics and lite-rock guitar work. In fact, I'm sure I used to skip over this song when listening to the album.
But suddenly, one day last week, this song completely changed for me. Sometimes, maturity is not overrated.
Writing
Is there anything left
Maybe steak and eggs?
Waking up to washing up
Making up your bed
Lazy days my razor blade
Could use a better edge
It's enough to make you laugh
Relax in a nice cool bath
Inspiration for navigation
Of our new found craft
I know you and you know me
It's always half and half
And we were oh oh, so you know
Not the kind to dawdle
Will the things we wrote today
Sound as good tomorrow?
Will we still be writing
In approaching years?
Stifling yawns on Sundays
As the weekends disappear
We could stretch our legs if we've half a mind
But don't disturb us if you hear us trying
To instigate the structure of another line or two
Cause writing's lighting up
And I like life enough to see it through
And we were oh oh, so you know
Not the kind to dawdle
Will the things we wrote today
Sound as good tomorrow?
Will we still be writing
In approaching years?
Stifling yawns on Sundays
As the weekends disappear
We could stretch our legs if we've half a mind
But don't disturb us if you hear us trying
To instigate the structure of another line or two
Cause writing's lighting up
And I like life enough to see it through
Cause writing's lighting up
And I like life enough to see it through
(NOTE: This is the song as sung by Elton John. Bernie Taupin might have sent it to Elton in a slightly different format.)
more...
1
never heard it. i'll have to check it out on iTunes. i love EJ.
Elton John for UN Sec Gen!
Posted by: annika at October 04, 2006 12:34 PM (fTmcd)
2
You just haven't been alive quite long enough or spent enough time in retail malls or doctor offices.
Sir Elton is one of the very most overplayed pop idols in the universe. I used to like his stuff too, but now it just fills me with dread and agony. I just heard that crap waaaaaaaay too much.
Along with, The Beatles, The Mommas and the Poppas, Rod Stewart, Billy Joel, Phil Collins, and for some reason which mystifies me, Micheal McDonald.
Posted by: kyle8 at October 04, 2006 12:54 PM (HA+F5)
3
Kyle,
Did you really just include The Beatles, the great rock group of all time, with Michael Fucking McDonald and Phil Fucking Collins. I'm pretty sure there must be some sort of sin associated with that kind of bad musical analysis :-)
Well, at least your politics are always solid.
Posted by: blu at October 04, 2006 04:21 PM (j8oa6)
4
actually i hate the beatles, (post revolver) but i like michael mcdonald and phil collins
Posted by: annika at October 04, 2006 07:04 PM (qQD4Q)
5
Yeah, who needs Strawberry Fields when you can listen to "Ya I'm Gonna Be There" or "Just Another Day in Paradise." If you tell that Michael Bolton is just a misunderstood genius I just might hurl.
Posted by: blu at October 04, 2006 07:14 PM (hXbaB)
6
Michael McDonald, eh? There's a great little video celebration of his career and the late-70s soft rock scene at www.yachtrock.com - me and my best friend, being the Steely Dan fans and musicians we are, have gotten a huge kick out of those short episodes!
Posted by: Chris at October 04, 2006 07:44 PM (g1lWg)
7
Ugh! I never got the whole soft rock, Steely Dan thing. Hate it, always have. And Blu, doesn't matter to me how great the Beatles were, being a reasonably intelligent person with an imagination and some taste I just cannot listen to the same goddam crap one billion trillion times and not get sick and tired of it.
I'll tell you what there ought to be a law about. There ought to be a law forbiding the public playing of any song more than say thirty farking years old. My nightmare is that I will be a ninety year old in an old folks home and they will still be playing that lame ass shit.
Posted by: kyle8 at October 05, 2006 02:57 AM (ersXq)
8
Michael Bolton is just a misunderstood genius.
(Who knew making Blu hurl was that easy?)
Posted by: Victor at October 05, 2006 03:06 AM (l+W8Z)
9
I'm entering the desert. I think I'll drop some acid and listen to Dark Side of the Moon... the lunatic is on the hill...
Posted by: Casca at October 05, 2006 04:31 AM (I6Vpt)
10
Victor,
LOL
Kyle,
For me its when the stations play the same song over and over again. So, you start with a song you really like (or at least enjoy) and end up despising it. That's why I'm generally listening to CDs instead of the radio.
Posted by: blu at October 05, 2006 07:50 AM (hXbaB)
11
I’ll look for the CD. The lyrics are quite impressive.
Posted by: Flowers at October 05, 2006 09:39 AM (vcUSw)
12
Hmmm. For me, Writing was always one of the highlights of that album. It's a great little ditty that leads into the awesome Someone Saved My Life Tonight. Good stuff. Too bad Elton doesn't write music like that anymore.
Posted by: Tuning Spork at October 05, 2006 06:01 PM (fkQTo)
Democrats (and some Republicans) Call For Gay Profiling
Any treatment of the Mark Foley story must include certain disclaimers, so let's get those out of the way first.
1. Foley's conduct with the pages was despicable, inexcusable, inappropriate, sickening, and in my opinion may turn out to be worse than has been alleged so far.
2. I'm glad he is gone, good riddance.
3. If Dennis Hastert or other members of the House Republican leadership knew about the masturbatory internet chats (as opposed to the e-mails sent to a different page, which they did know about), then Hastert is no better than Cardinal Mahoney and needs to be booted out.*
Now, the question before us is whether Hastert should be booted out anyway. That's what Democrats and some Republicans are saying.
An excellent summary of the story as of last Sunday can be found at American Thinker.
What do we know so far?
In the Fall of 2005, Speaker Hastert's office was first notified of "overly friendly" emails sent by Foley to a certain page (not the one from the masturbatory chats). Hastert's office was not shown the original emails.
Now, since Hastert is not the "boss" of the House of Representatives (he's barely the boss of the House Republicans) he appropriately handed off the issue to the Clerk of the House.
The House Clerk is kind of a quasi-operations officer for the whole House, and is elected by the whole House.
The Clerk asked to see the "overly friendly" e-mails in question and was told that the parents didn't want to reveal them for privacy reasons. The issue was resolved by the Clerk's office telling Foley to stop all contact with the page.
As far as I know, nobody is claiming that Hastert ever knew of the masturbatory chats before they were disclosed last week. All he knew about was the "overly friendly" e-mails, and he didn't even know what was in them.
Now, we can have a discussion about whether Hastert's office, or the Clerk should have been more vigourous in demanding to see what was in the e-mails. But even if they had seen the e-mails, what should they have done?
Look at the e-mails in question, and ask yourself why they are disturbing. I think they are, but I have the benefit of knowing about the masturbatory chats, which provide a hell of a lot of context.
In the first e-mail, Foley asks, "how old are you now?" In the second, he comments that another page is "in really great shape." In the third, Foley asks the page what he wants for his birthday. In the fourth e-mail, Foley says, "send me a pic of you as well."
In the law of defamation, there is a concept called "defamation per quod," which is used to describe a statement that is not defamatory in and of itself, but can be defamatory if one takes into account facts that are extrinsic to the statment itself.
You might say that Foley's e-mails contain statements that are "pederastic per quod." In other words, the statements themselves are not creepy unless one takes into account a fact that is extrinsic to the statements: the fact that Mark Foley is gay.
Alarm bells could not go off in anyone's mind upon reading those e-mails unless one takes into account the sexual orientation of the author. In other words, Hastert's critics are implicitly saying that Hastert should have made two assumptions about Mark Foley in general and the e-mails in particular (which he didn't even see).
1. That Mark Foley is gay, and
2. All gays want to have sex with young boys.
Assumption number two is patently untrue, and I don't know why gay rights groups are not speaking up in outrage about this. For Hastert to come down on Foley based on the text of those four emails, Hastert would have had to assume the worst about a gay man on pretty flimsy evidence. Is that fair? Or isn't that gay profiling?
Add to that the fact that Foley was not officially out of the closet until this week. There were rumors, certainly, but Foley had always denied them. If Hastert had "outed" Foley on the basis of those four e-mails alone, Hastert would have been pilloried by the same people now calling for his head.
1
I have deep reservations about forming my opinions from 'news' blogs; there's really no accountability and they could be 80% right, with the other 20% carefully crafted spin.
I have a hard time believing that the subject was brought to the attention of Hastert if it was just a friendly IM asking for a pic, unless there was something about the pic that hasn't been elaborated on yet.
There will be much about this to come, so I will simply reserve judgement until I see more evidence (or coverup).
Posted by: will at October 03, 2006 06:15 PM (h7Ciu)
2
Well, I don't know that you'd have to think number 2 to be troubled by just these emails alone. Leaving aside the fact that I'm just bothered that a congressman writes so horribly (though, really, I guess I shouldn't be so shocked -- I've seen some law partners with horrendous email skills... but I digress), these emails are REALLY freaking casual for being between a congressman and a page. I interned for my congressman while I was in college and I don't think he even knew my name, let alone sent me emails asking for my picture. So unless he shows that level of familiarity with ALL of his pages/interns, I'd think it was kind of fishy, yeah, and I don't think all gays (or even very many of them) are pedophiles.
I'm not saying that this is necessarily a reason to kick out Hastert -- I don't have strong feelings about that one way or another, and I think it's very cynical but predictable of democrats to use this as an excuse -- but I don't think that you'd necessarily have to think all gays are pedophiles to find the emails a little troubling.
Posted by: The Law Fairy at October 03, 2006 08:33 PM (6KMvp)
3
This is not a Dimocratic or Ripofflican thing. It is indicative of a lack of honor and integrity on the part of those who serve in Congress.
Term limits anyone?
Posted by: NOTR at October 03, 2006 10:25 PM (izx0t)
4
I just think the guy is a fucking pervert, and I'm happy as hell he got caught. Sure, it helps the Dems - hell they may even be behind the release so long after the fact - but the bottom line is the guy deserves to be in that special place in Hell reserved for those who exploit children. What an amazing creep. And, I hate to sound macho because it generally sounds very stupid, but the guy needs his nancy boy ass kicked.
As for the leadership, I'm with Will. I don't know enough for a judgement. The Dems grandstanding this, though, is pretty hypocritical given they didn't say jackshit about their own page pervert in the past.
And how about the guy busting out the "I was abused by clergy" crap. So fucking what? That's an excuse? Again, this is a man in need of a good ol' fashioned ass kicking.
Posted by: blu at October 03, 2006 10:48 PM (hXbaB)
Posted by: Radical Redneck at October 03, 2006 11:26 PM (vElSn)
6
You know I try to be tolerant and all that. But I would say that any gay who (1)sought some high position of power, and (2) was in the closet, is probably also capable of hitting on underage kids.
It sort of goes with the territory of being a narcissist and living a false life.
Posted by: kyle8 at October 04, 2006 03:06 AM (fGBhJ)
7
"Hastert's office was not shown the original emails." How do we know this?
Posted by: will at October 04, 2006 04:21 AM (h7Ciu)
8
how do we know the sun will come up tomorrow?
because annie says so!
Posted by: annie at October 04, 2006 06:45 AM (MNk5t)
9
I have to agree with Law Fairy; there's something inherently creepy about a man in a congressman's position being so interested in teenage pages. I'd feel exactly the same if they were girls. Foley's e-mails seem innocent enough on their face until you recall that he's a 52 year-old man writing to teenagers. It would be one thing if they were family, or if Foley were a close friend of their families. (When I was a teenager I used to occasionally hang out at the house of one of my parents' friends, who was in his fifties. There was nothing inappropriate about it; he'd known me since the day I was born, and I thought he was a pretty cool guy. And he was. He even loaned me his 1969 AMX once. The 390! What a rush ... but I digress.) But absent that kind of understandably close relationship, my reaction in Hastert's place would've been to wonder what Foley could possibly have in common with sixteen year-olds.
I'm only 36, and there are few sixteen year-olds I'd be interested in befriending; I just don't have much in common with most of them. Look at it this way. A 23 year-old law student clerked in my office this summer. (A smokin' hot 23 year-old law student.) If I were to start e-mailing her using the same tone Foley used with these pages, asking for pics of her and the like, I think many people would quite naturally assume I was trying to bang her. And I have a lot more in common with a 23 year-old law student than any congresscritter has in common with any sixteen year-old. There might have been plausible innocent explanations for those e-mails, but I would've wanted to hear them.
Posted by: Matt at October 04, 2006 07:38 AM (10G2T)
10
and then what...
that's the point, with which the WSJ agrees, btw.
Posted by: annika at October 04, 2006 12:17 PM (fTmcd)
11
Annika,
Hey Kyle8
With both hands on my dick how did you get that shot? Wearing those creepy glasses with the camera in the bridge again? But thanks for the exposure, you know what they say.
But seriously folks, I like my cheek but I take my tongue out of it some times.
Whether Foley is a despicable old queen is not in dispute. His clergy abuse, alcoholism defense is such scary cynical bullshit you gotta wonder what lawmakers have for brains or think their constituents have. He is out of Congress and if his pandering rises to a crime he will most likely be prosecuted. That is the end of that.
But like most of what goes on in DC, the real crime is against the American people perpetrated by those whose fear of losing power causes them to lose perspective and act like criminals. Now I was not in the room with Hastert when he made his decisions about this matter based on the "overly friendly" but not graphic emails but I am confident he was in no rush to investigate Foley, knowing what he would find (you would have to be brain dead not to recognize these emails for what they were) could not act against the best interests of the party. Politicians are concerned with POWER not the well being of 16-17 year old boys. Foley might pay them lip service; in fact I am sure he would but not big fat Denny. Will Denny escape aiding and abetting because the "friendly" emails' intent is deniable (not really but he will shrug and say shit like “What’s wrong with asking if a young man is in good physical condition? That's a nice, caring question. Where’s the harm in that?" There is no level of disingenuousness that these pigs won't stoop to when their ass in hanging out. He seems to have deniability on the "So, you're prolly gonna jerk off this weekend, right? Maybe I could lend a hand." text messages.
I have no doubt what –so-ever that they hoped to confine this matter at least until after the mid terms.
Should Denny step down? Who the fuck cares? What will he be replaced with? A congenial bi-partisan deal maker? Hardly, there are plenty more dogs in the pen.
Posted by: strawman at October 04, 2006 01:06 PM (tuy00)
12
I wasn't addressing what Hastert should've done; perhaps there was nothing he could have done. But you went beyond that claim; you asserted that that one has to assume "all gays want to have sex with young boys" in order for those e-mails to generate alarm bells. No. The fact that a 52 year-old man is writing those sorts of things to a 16 year-old of either sex, in this context, should set off alarm bells. If my daughter (who'll be 16 in fewer years than I'd like to admit) were getting such e-mails from s fifty-something former boss, I'd seriously consider kicking his ass.
Posted by: Matt at October 04, 2006 01:24 PM (10G2T)
13
It now appears the page was 18, so it looks like Foley will skate criminal prosecution. Anyone who doesn't believe that power corrupts is willfully blind. This applies to both parties, and term limits are at least part of the answer. Along with limits on the professional staff as well. My preference would be a strict 12 year limit total executive or legislative branch service.
No more pages, also.
Posted by: MarkD at October 05, 2006 05:16 AM (oQofX)
14
I stand corrected on the ages. I should not have stopped with the headline in Drudge.
Posted by: MarkD at October 05, 2006 05:50 AM (oQofX)
15
Kyle8,
I looked more closely at that photo and I suspect the line "... and the destruction of Israel" is photoshop'ed in. It just does not look correct and the angle of the line cast back to the rear of the picture does not match the other lines. Also it is jet black and given the colors of the rest of the poster I don't think the makers would have used black. And, of course, the conflict, not that this would surprize the RW bigots, between the the "....for peace" and ....destruction" sentiments.
I could be wrong but I don't think so.
Posted by: strawman at October 05, 2006 06:43 AM (tuy00)
16
Something got knocked loose last night. Per ageofconsent.com, 16 is legal in the District of Columbia.
So, if the page were 17 and in DC, I suppose, technically, there was nothing illegal. Unbelievably, incredibly distasteful, to say the least, but not illegal.
(NOTE: Please keep in mind I just *work* in a law firm--I don't practice in one. I ain't no lawyer; those with legal backgrounds are free to tear this apart as they see fit. Heck, so are those without legal backgrounds.)
Posted by: Victor at October 05, 2006 09:00 AM (WHtgF)
17
I haven't been following this very closely. I had the impression that the virtual sex occurred after the pages returned home to Florida or wherever they were from. In that case, D.C. law might not apply. There's been some stuff about this over at Volokh in the past couple of days.
Posted by: Matt at October 05, 2006 12:26 PM (10G2T)
18
Doesn't the fact that gays have waxed poetic about pederasty since the times of Xenophon count for us doing a little extra profiling here? Women, it seems, know men want to fuck them, even when they're 14, so they keep a certain appropriate distance if they're sensible. But young men are ambitious and likely less aware they're being seduced until they wake up with a dick in their mouth or realize it's time to quit going out to dinner with their favorite teacher/coach/professor or whoever. What's my point? This guy is a piece of crap, a seducer of star-struck youth?
Posted by: Roach at October 05, 2006 01:59 PM (1BjlW)
MNF Pick, Week IV
Tonight's game is Green Bay at Philadelphia. Philly is favored by 11½. I was stumped about who to pick, since Green Bay has burned me before. Here's the history.
On September 13, 2004, I bet Green Bay in the season opener. They won and I won.
On October 11, 2004, I picked favorite Green Bay, and they got trounced by the Titans, so I lost.
On November 29, 2004, I bet against the Pack. They won 45 to 17, and I lost.
On October 3, 2005, I bet on Green Bay. They lost, but Carolina didn't cover so I won.
On November 21, 2005, I bet against Green Bay. They won and I lost.
So I figure, there's enough information there to discern a pattern. Anyone who took the LSAT ought to be able to see it. If you want to try and guess it, don't click on the extended entry. Otherwise, the answer is below.
more...
1
I am kicking ass in Fantasy football, and my Texans squeeked one by the maladroit(hows that for a descriptive word) Dolphins.
Strangely enough, David Carr is like a top QB for fantasy purposes.
Good college games next weekend.
As for the game tonight, I got no players on either team, so as far as I am concerned a giant fissure could open in the earth and swallow both teams and I wouldn't give a damn.
Posted by: kyle8 at October 02, 2006 01:33 PM (3pXPB)
2
As God is my witness, I swear: I can find absolutely nothing wrong with your logic. Not. One. Thing.
Posted by: Victor at October 02, 2006 04:00 PM (l+W8Z)
Thank goodness we have scientists to study this kind of stuff.
Actually, the story I'm referring to, by John Stossel and Gail Deutsch of ABC News, is mildly interesting. For instance:
'So when they look at babies in the first 72 hours of life, they find that males and females are not identical in the way they behave,' [a researcher] said. 'Males startle more than females. If you give a little puff of air on their abdomen, they startle much bigger and much more likely to startle than females, and females rhythmically mouth. They suck on their tongues. They move their lips and so forth more than males do.'
Uhh... am I the only one who reads anything sexual into those results?
Another tidbit:
'The male brain Â… actually has a harder time processing the female voice versus the male voice, which is a possible explanation to why we don't listen when our wives call us,' Dr. Billy Goldberg said on '20/20.'
. . .
They said it was true that men listened less because of biology.
'Male babies make less eye contact, for instance, with their mothers than female babies,' Leyner said. 'So what we're talking about are different ways of relating to people that start at the earliest possible age.'
So can men say, 'Honey, it's not my fault. It's my brain'?
1
And that, my friends, is what we call responsible science.
Oh, wait. No it's not.
Posted by: The Law Fairy at September 30, 2006 11:47 AM (6KMvp)
2
Gee, Annika,
What part of trying to talk do you find sexual? We all knew women were the more verbal of the sexes.
John and I were vollyball buddies in central park and he and his wife were in Lamaz class with me and mine 21 years ago.
I have met people who are big Gay, lesbian and transgendered drum bangers who believe that sexual orientation is an option such that if you raised your child with gender neutrality they would be more free, read healthy, to take the one that appealed to them most. I believe it's biological, that boys and girls start off differently not just with regard to equipment and that to confuse or deny this is really nuts. That is not to say, of course, that I would not support a persons choice should they wish to change their gender or sexual orientation from what it might have appeared to be at birth, but to suggest that they are excerising a choice that others have been denied because their parents did not offer these opportunities to them when they were very young is a very different idea altogether.
Posted by: strawman at September 30, 2006 11:50 AM (tuy00)
3
Dave Chappelle says there are 4 things y'all women can do for us:
1) Sex
2) Play with our balls
3) Make us a sandwich
4) Don't talk so much
I would advocate 20/20 covering the issue in this way
Posted by: Scof at September 30, 2006 11:54 AM (deQ2d)
4'The male brain Â… actually has a harder time processing the female voice versus the male voice, which is a possible explanation to why we don't listen when our wives call us,' Dr. Billy Goldberg said on '20/20.'
Abso-friggin-loutely, Men have a SURVIVAL MECHANISM which allows us to drown out female blather. If not for that there would be far more insane men, or battered women.
Posted by: kyle8 at September 30, 2006 03:00 PM (Ci7Ue)
Posted by: Tuning Spork at September 30, 2006 06:13 PM (sTYUu)
6
Uhmm.
Really hoping y'all are being sarcastic. Call me a "humorless feminist" (because of course there's no other kind. Note, THIS is sarcasm) if you must, but there's nothing funny about beating women. Just sayin'.
straw, if you think men and women are so inherently different, what does this mean then? What is the point of saying this? Does it have to mean anything or not? John Stossel and co seem to think it means men don't have to listen to women. Or, you know, that it's okay for men to beat their wives.
Jesus, I'm glad I live in Los Angeles and not Arkansas.
Posted by: The Law Fairy at September 30, 2006 07:19 PM (6KMvp)
7
I like Bill Engvall's excuse better. "Hey...I'm a guy."
Posted by: Ontario Emperor at September 30, 2006 10:16 PM (OCASf)
8
Law F.
I think there are differences but none of them are more important than the development of ethics and morality. Nothing excuses behaving badly. Men are predesposed to certain behavioral parigdims as are women. Murder which is predominatley the domian of men does not get excused because it may be a remnant of the aggression that was a necessary component of protecting the tribe and hunting. Culture must trump biology. I did not hear Stossel but I would guess he thinks men and women should listen to each other but has come to understand, not accept or excuse, why men may not do this as well as women.
Posted by: strawman at October 01, 2006 10:23 AM (tuy00)
9
I (heart) beating women!
Not that I'd ever have to excuse it (more like sell it) but it keps them pliable. In line!
Plus they'll keep voting for Bill and Hill - because they say they are on their side!
Posted by: true patriot at October 01, 2006 08:28 PM (fQ8EQ)
10
Who brings up beating women, but the chick who can't get laid with a fist-full of fifties.
I'm on the road this week, and this is a no-shitter. I was taking my seat at the gate waiting for my outbound flight. Just as I was dropping my bags, I noticed that there was a cackle of three women sitting in proximity, and the bullest of the dykes was in full blither. I knew that it was a mistake to take a seat there, and I physically hesitated before releasing the handle of my valise, but I fought my gut, and took a seat. Fifteen minutes later, I was forced to speak. It was only a few sentences, but I sent her into brainlock and peace ensued. Glancing to my left, I shared a silent communication with another middle-aged man... he was thanking me.
Posted by: Casca at October 02, 2006 04:17 AM (ByTez)
11
Also: boys have peepees, whereas girls have hoohoos.
Posted by: Barry at October 02, 2006 09:19 AM (kKjaJ)
12
"Who brings up beating women, but the chick who can't get laid with a fist-full of fifties."
kyle's a chick?
Posted by: The Law Fairy at October 02, 2006 03:00 PM (XUsiG)
13
I love the way the water breaks when you rise to the bait.
Posted by: Casca at October 02, 2006 06:47 PM (E5x8S)
14
And I love the way your churlish insults don't even pass 10th-grade reading comprehension muster.
Posted by: The Law Fairy at October 02, 2006 07:42 PM (XUsiG)
15
I'm sure some Harvard woman professor is running out of the room as we speak.
Posted by: Mark at October 06, 2006 08:13 AM (krump)
Kooky Firecrotch Fan Mail Of The Week
Yes, people keep sending them to me. Usually people ask me for her e-mail and normally I send back a curt response. But this one was unusual because somehow the dude thinks I'm her. How insulting is that?
Here it is, verbatim:
hi lindsay lohan
i'am your biggest fan and because i love all your movies you stared in and one more i want you to go out with me sometime if you want to and please write back biggest sweetheart
I should write him back:
dear freako,
you are a sick stalker, and probably very dangerous and meen. do not come near my house.
instead, i'll mete you behind Jerry's Deli 2nite at midnite. Bring some rubers and weed
1
Annie, I've read the "Army at Dawn" and its wonderful. In my Walter Mitty life I'd be a WWII historian, basically a younger (and live) version of Stephen Ambrose. I love the modern version of WWII histories. So much of the current crop of history of that conflict shows the downside of how unprepared the US military was, even though by the time we got troops engaged we had been at it for at least 9 months. The cost was borne by those soldiers in North Africa who would spend the next 3+ years as prisoners. The only beef I have is that its only available in audio as an abridged version. Also that there should be a Volume II which I've never seen published.
Posted by: Drake Steel at September 29, 2006 04:09 PM (RbnOT)
2
Fine, don't tag me. I'm not hurt. Not at all, really.
Posted by: Hugo at September 29, 2006 06:42 PM (Yu24L)
3
Few people know that there were Marines who landed on Guadalcanal, who had never had any boot camp training. They learned to fire their weapons on the decks of transports. There were plenty of stories of NCO's being ordered to bootcamp at the end of the war to complete their basic training. In the hour of need, they had passed the ultimate test. They were willing.
Posted by: Casca at September 29, 2006 09:13 PM (2gORp)
4
Sorry Hugo, Of course I meant to tag you, but just as I was typing your name a crazed animal ran into the house and knocked over a thing in the kitchen starting a huge fire and then we lost all our electricity and so I wasn't able to until now.
Posted by: annika at September 30, 2006 07:42 AM (qQD4Q)
5
Mrs. O'Leary's cow?
I'll consider myself tagged, and will recover from my miffedness, which is a word where I come from.
Posted by: Hugo at September 30, 2006 09:23 AM (Yu24L)
Posted by: Scof at September 30, 2006 03:10 PM (deQ2d)
7
I have read many books unfortunantly my life prior to four years ago is a blur because of drug dependency. Nevertheless, some books I really liked and seemed to stick with me were All the Alexander Dumas books. He was funny and witty and his heroes were larger than life, but had a distinct morality.
I also liked Barbara Tuchman's histories. "A Distant Mirror", and "The Proud Tower". Another book which had a profound effect on me was "Free to Choose", by Milton and Rose Freidman.
I also read a lot of Tom Wolfe.
Posted by: kyle8 at September 30, 2006 03:10 PM (Ci7Ue)
8
"7. One book you wish had never been written?
Any Chomsky book."
Amen! ** Enthusiastic applause to Annika. **
Posted by: Mark at October 06, 2006 08:18 AM (krump)
Civilian Contractor Attack Videotaped
Check out this report from tonight's Nightline. It's pretty disturbing. Here's the transcript, in case you can't view the video.
In a nutshell, the video was taken by a Halliburton contractor named Preston Wheeler last September with his digital camera. He was driving truck five in a convoy that got lost near Balad in the Sunni Triangle.
The video shows teenagers throwing rocks at the convoy as the trucks headed down a dead end road. When the convoy had to turn back, the enemy was waiting for them. A bullet hole suddenly appears in Wheeler's windshield. A roadside bomb explodes, a truck driver is killed and his truck overturns. Wheeler's truck is disabled, and his Humvee escort continues driving.
Small arms fire is heard. Wheeler, now alone, is eventually hit by a couple of rounds as he hides under the dashboard. Inexplicably, he is unarmed. He also witnesses another truck driver taken out of his truck and shot dead by the enemy.
The Nightline report also shows predator footage of another Halliburton driver's body being desecrated by the enemy.
After 45 minutes, helicopters arrive and the cowardly insurgents scurry off, no doubt reverting to innocent civilian status.
I don't understand why the civilian drivers were not armed. I don't understand why that village was not carpet bombed immediately afterwards. It's maddening.
1
FuckÂ’em Annika,
Civilians doing the work our military should be doing for extraordinary pay get no sympathy from me. We are an invading force, committing illegal and inhumane acts daily against a civilian population to further the goals of AMERICA in Iraq. All that befalls our expeditionary force and its highly paid mercenaries is the price we pay for this poorly executed, criminal invasion of a deeply flawed but sovereign nation that DID NOT ATTACK America.
All the chaos and despair that stems from this blighted tree of bullshit, lies and self-serving policy is not surprising. Why are you still shocked to see resistance, cowardice and jubilation? No one has their heart in the fight except those who are committed to freeing their country from the boot of the US and its Christian values, militarism and thirst for oil.
Posted by: strawman at September 28, 2006 06:35 AM (tuy00)
2
Wow. Is that you, Markos Zoonigas?
I'm surprised that Annie has given you her respect for this long.
Posted by: reagan80 at September 28, 2006 06:48 AM (dFOlH)
3
I usually ignore the very small group of retards who post here. Some things can't be ignored, and the words of this fool need to be taken down. He is a traitor who steals the food he eats, and sleeps under the blanket that another man provides. Shun him.
As for those poor fuckers selling their collective asses for a buck in the dirt world, that's some pretty hard-earned cash. If you're going to sail out into harms way, you'd be well advised to do it with men who won't flinch at pulling a trigger, and avoid the company of the nancy-assed bitches of the Virginia National Guard.
Posted by: Casca at September 28, 2006 06:50 AM (Z2ndo)
4
Sure, Casca, I need a blanket to protect me from Iraqi's. Get you head out of your ass and smell the sand dunes. We are toast in this "conflict" We have no heart to win because the cause is false and our leader warrants no respect. He talks to the country in his 8th grade speak and only neanderthals like yot with blood in their eye, anybody's blood, get a hard on. Get off your belly, take the sock out of your mouth, W's cock out of your ass and clean your upper lip. Try saving your son. Tell him freedom and liberty are causes worth dying for but only when they are really threatened and that Iraq is not the battlefield where that is happening.
Posted by: strawman at September 28, 2006 07:20 AM (tuy00)
5
Straw,
Your comments above are those of a sociopath. You do not know the motives of those civilian men killed. Their payscale is fucking irrelevant - not that you even have a clue about what they were paid. That post was the most vile garbage I've ever read on this site because I know you are serious. Perhaps you could send your thoughtful bit of prose to the wives and children of these people. Maybe that would turn around their thinking and help them understand that daddy was just a monster working for monsters. Actually, there is no need because AQ and their many cloned Islamo-fascist groups send out the same communication on a daily basis. I'm surprised you didn't throw in a line about the Jews just to round it out.
You should be ashamed. I would never, though, asked that your trash be banned from this site. People need to see that folks like you really exist so they can better understand the psychosis of the enemy.
Posted by: blu at September 28, 2006 07:58 AM (TVuWZ)
6
y'all should do what Casca says as far as the shunning...
...I'd say don't respond to people who post anonymously. If they can't say what they're gonna say with their identity behind 'em, than fuck 'em, cuz they are fuckin around anyways. I don't know what kind of shit stain thinks it'll be fun to spend gobs and gobs of their own time to purposefully say stupid things, but that shit stain goes by the name strawman...and for me that applies to any other anonymous poster.
Posted by: Scof at September 28, 2006 08:02 AM (a3fqn)
7
SCof,
You are anonymous, I am not. My web address is well know and there for any to see.
I am fed up with the sactimonious crap that passes for commentary. A hundred thousand or more dead and we should get down on our knees and weep for a few guys and their families who went for the money? Bullshit. I wonder what they thought of their wives and children that they could play so fast and loose with their lives. People make bad choices all the time. Nobody twisted their arms. I am sorry they are dead, they did not deserve to die and their families suffer but they were there of their own free will and were there to support an illegal invasion and the concomitant death and destruction heaped upon this country and its people. They are participants in a grand and evil scheme purpetrated by grandiouse and evil men. Men who should be hauled off and rendered to a country that will torture them for thier deeds just as they do to those unconvicted "terrorists" Canadians we capture.
Blu, what is a scandalous and sickening event, not words, is what is taking place EVERY FUCKING HOUR in Iraq. Not at all comparable to my angry and unsympathetic words.
Posted by: strawman at September 28, 2006 08:22 AM (tuy00)
8
Sorry, only people that I email see my real name. Besides, I'm sure Annie can probably see it in her IP logs and stuff.
However, Strawman has posted under his real name before. You can see it here:
http://tinyurl.com/h4ms8
Posted by: reagan80 at September 28, 2006 08:23 AM (9Bjo9)
9
reagan80, on whatever site I'm on, I make exceptions for folks I know are regular posters, i.e. those who have a genuine interest in whatever the discussion may be and don't act like children pushing buttons...speaking of that:
Straw you are such a damn idiot, you know full well all you have to do is click on "scof" to see my website, and thus see who I am, but instead you just, again, purposefully say something stupid -- i.e. that I'm anonymous.
As for the rest of your drivel, I'll simply let the shunning begin...or as Willie the groundskeeper says, the shinnin!
Posted by: Scof at September 28, 2006 09:27 AM (a3fqn)
10
Keep spewing, Straw. We are all learning something about your character. Che would be very proud of you.
Interesting how you have little sympathy for men trying to bring freedom and the 21st century to a country that had suffered a brutal dictatorship for decades, but you'll cry huge crocodile tears over the death of "civilians" (read: terrorists) in Lebanon and "Palestine."
You weep for the wrong people, Straw.
p.s. I wasn't going to bring this up, but it's fucking burning me up inside: Bringing Casca's son into the debate was way below the belt. You wouldn't have the balls to say that to his face, so don't take the cowards road and write it knowing you'll never have to face the consequences. I know this is just an internet debate, but still be a fucking man.
Posted by: blu at September 28, 2006 09:44 AM (j8oa6)
11
1000 pardons sire, I clicked after my post. You are in plain sight as am I so don't be so fast on the draw for all you, damn idiot, had to do was the same.
I set out ot push no buttons. Your placement of said buttons is your choice. There is no one around here who does not know that I am vehemently opposed to this choice of solution(s) to the Islamic problem. Not news. Get over it if you can't hear a voice that does not click his heels and spout the party line.
Do you think those kids who threw rocks at the convoy or the dead driver were our ememy before we invaded? Do you think many of them as they get older will pick up an AK or ask an older boy how to make an IED? How many of them might decide that traveling to England or France or America reinvigorating themselves and their new craft is a good idea? DO you think that boy might otherwise have followed in his fathers footsteps and become a baker or a car mechanic or oilfield worker had his country not been destroyed by Americans which all the while lied to him about why they came? How about his anger and suffering when he no longer had a school to go to each morning and the day his older brother and father were blown up in the bakery by a bomb during the invasion, or an errant 155 round as his town was occupied.
Tell me, anyone why this effort is valid, protective of America, or should be applauded by the Iraqi's? And please spare me the purile crap about their precious freedom and their blue thumbs as if voting is the consumate act which allows people to go to their graves happy.
Posted by: strawman at September 28, 2006 09:51 AM (tuy00)
12
Blu,
I would say it to any father who contemplated the cosequences of a son who chose a soldiers life. I have a 21 year old son. I would say it to his face for what man could hate someone that wanted his son to live. I say it as a man who would die for his country were it besieged. I would say it to him as a father and a man whose father fought in WWII (AF master sgt Julius Bernstein) I would say it as a man who would not kill men who were not my enemy in Vietnam, I say it as an American who is ashamed of his army occupying Iraq. America, that wise an gullible fool that bought into the saber ratteling of an old ally, a sick psycopath who we armed to the teeth with conventional and unconventional weopons when he would do our bidding but now was rebeling against our grip. We are engaged in making a "new world" against its will and the price is terribly high and the outcome in serious doubt.
I would rather characterize my remark as a high blow, a blow to consience of a man, a soldier, who I would hope could come to see the folly of this campaign and might come to see the criminality of the administration that fabricated the need for this adventure.
Casca, if you read my remark as some attempt to denigrate you or your son, my apologies, I only want what you want: Grandchildren, a painless dotage and a free America that stops promoting spineless leaders who are too afraid not to fight.
Posted by: strawman at September 28, 2006 10:20 AM (tuy00)
13
"Then the idiot who praises, with enthusiastic tone,
All centuries but this, and every country but his own;
They'll none of 'em be missed — they'll none of 'em be missed."
Posted by: Casca at September 28, 2006 11:22 AM (Z2ndo)
14
Shit Blu, if you'd a just STFU'd, I wouldn't even know, since I don't read postings from self-loathing leftists. There is a steak of madness there, that is best given a wide birth. Hatred like theirs is satanic.
Posted by: Casca at September 28, 2006 11:37 AM (Z2ndo)
15
Casca,
Empty words. Empty thoughts by militarists that have esprit de corps, blind obeisance and little intellectual courage.
Posted by: Strawman at September 28, 2006 11:39 AM (tuy00)
16
> I don't understand why that village was not carpet bombed immediately afterwards.
But that is what Saddam would have done. We deplored him for such actions; should we become the enemy ourselves?
Posted by: will at September 28, 2006 12:11 PM (h7Ciu)
17"committing illegal and inhumane acts daily against a civilian population"
Bullshit. Before spewing, get your facts straight.
Idiot. You're falling for lies. And you have the gall to accuse us of that. You're the one with the incorrect worldview here.
Posted by: ElMondoHummus at September 28, 2006 12:21 PM (ySDyN)
18
"But that is what Saddam would have done."
If that's what Saddam would have done, and Iraq was better off under Saddam...
just sayin.
Posted by: annika at September 28, 2006 12:31 PM (zAOEU)
19
Getting back to the topic that the idiotic Strawman - such an appropriate name, given his arguments - diverted us from:
Anyone military here who can answer this? I think I remember reading somewhere that convoys are instructed to push through ambushes and not stop as a whole, but that's as a group. Shouldn't some of the escort stop to render aid? Basically, I'm confused why the escort left the drivers behind. Anyone know?
Posted by: ElMondoHummus at September 28, 2006 12:33 PM (ySDyN)
20
Casca,
Sorry. It was none of my business. I know you can speak for yourself.
Blu
Posted by: blu at September 28, 2006 01:08 PM (j8oa6)
21
HEH the spammers are getting more clever, they now use 'bots to probe for certain phrases then they post stuff like the two posts above mine.
Anywho, I long ago decided Strawdog was an imbicile, marxist, scociopath stooge not worth responding to.
I was offered one of those jobs in Iraq, and the pay was good, but the fact that I was not allowed to go armed made me decide against it. I would never go to one of those places without being able to shoot back if only for the reason that it would force them to kill me. To be taken hostage by those creatures, and have them saw your head off, is worse than a clean death.
Posted by: kyle8 at September 28, 2006 03:13 PM (vd8GP)
22
Kyle,
They are really not allowed to arm themselves? That's fucking whack! Why not?
Posted by: blu at September 28, 2006 03:16 PM (j8oa6)
23
They never gave a good reason, but that is part of the rules for nearly all the private contractors.
You cannot have a weapon.
Posted by: kyle8 at September 28, 2006 03:42 PM (vd8GP)
24
twisted and outdated logic i'd assume. The rule against reporters carrying weapons is probably analogous. It's to protect reporters from attack. As we've seen, the rule protects neither reporters nor civilian contractors against barbarian sadists who believe torture and murder are required by their religion.
Posted by: annika at September 28, 2006 04:11 PM (zAOEU)
25
So if our involvement in Iraq was the wrong answer to fight Islamofacism, then what is the right answer? Ignore it? Let it fester? Give in?
Its maddening to think that the hard work our soldiers have put in is going unappreciated both in Iraq and at home.
Those contractors, greedy as they may be, were trying to bring Iraq into the 21st century and out of the stone age. They were thanked with bullets and beatings. The insurgents are barbarians, pure and simple.
The way I see it, the rest of the world will eventually wake up and realize that the threat Islamofacism poses is worth confronting. I just hope that when that time comes it isn't already too late to prevent it's spread.
Strawman, I want grandchildren too. Unlike you however, I want my grandchildren to be free Americans, not be enslaved by the fanatical rulers of the Global Caliphate that awaits them if pussy-footed liberals like yourself get your way.
That is the truth, brother.
Posted by: Rob at September 28, 2006 04:11 PM (Q2xwR)
26
Annika wrote;
>If that's what Saddam would have done, and Iraq was better off under Saddam... just sayin.
You seem to imply that using Saddam's cruelty on his own people is justifiable, as it wouldn't be any different if the war hadn't taken place. That's a fairly strong indictment of the lack of effect of OIF.
Rob wrote:
>So if our involvement in Iraq was the wrong answer to fight Islamofacism, then what is the right answer?
You have assumed that Iraq under Saddam was a cauldron of Islamofacism attacking (or about to attack) the US. Where on Earth have you acquired propaganda that would suggest such a thing? Even Bush has repeatedly refuted this. Please provide citations from reputable sources. Then read the two recently declassified intelligence briefs.
Posted by: will at September 28, 2006 05:00 PM (h7Ciu)
27
Ron,
Iraq was the most enlightened and western in all the ME. No islamic laws in affect, women treated nearly as equals, teaching in schools and holding professional jobs as doctors, engineers etc. Look at the fucking pictures on TV and notice the road system in Bagdad, looks just like our roads. Iraq was a bulwark against Islam and its regilo-facist rule. They has secular schools and universities. All things we are hoping to achieve now that we have destroyed them. The stone age was thrust upon Iraq by the American armed forces. They are no more barbaric than any insurgent civilian uprising in history that had to fight with improvised weapons and small arms against a powerful occupier.
Ron you've got it all backwards.
Posted by: Strawman at September 28, 2006 05:04 PM (tuy00)
28
Rob, I stopped believing in the threat of a Global Caliphate after I read this:
http://tinyurl.com/jydr9
5 reasons why we're in Iraq:
http://tinyurl.com/jppgq
[3) Control of Iraq completes the encirclement of Iran.
With fortified US bases in Iraq, Afghanistan and Turkey, Iran is bracketed and can, if necessary, be taken out of play as a military threat if not a political one. Iran knows this which is why it is so desperate to bring its atomic weapons on line. They will, alas, not avail Iran, but are the only option open to that government short of capitulation. That this fact is tending towards a tragic end is clear.
5) Control of Iraq is not about the oil, it's about the water.
What Iraq has that Iran, Syria, and Saudi Arabia do not is not oil, but fresh water. In fact, Iraq has almost all of the fresh water in the region. It is water that determines life in the Middle East and there's not a lot of it. The two largest rivers, Tigris and Euphrates, flow down the core of Iraq before bending towards Iran to share those waters briefly with Iran before meeting the ocean. No other country gets so much of a taste unless Iraq agrees. Iran has little fresh water as does Syria. Saudi Arabia has almost none. It is one thing to control oil fields. The wealth from that resource can buy desalination plants that give your expanding population the water to survive. If the oil tap is cut off, the economies of the west would begin to wither and die within three months. Cut off water and populations begin to die within three days.]
Posted by: reagan80 at September 28, 2006 05:18 PM (dFOlH)
29
To answer your question El, a proper ambush of vehicles usually has an obsticle so that they can stop the vehicles in a kill zone, so yeah, you want to roll on through. These were "volunteers", who were taking potshots with RPG's and AK's.
The HUGE mistake here was going the same way twice. Repeat after me, NEVER GO THE SAME WAY TWICE! On top of that, a proper convoy has security, not just a Hummer leading them in circles. I hate to say this, but we're at the point in the war where all real steely-eyed killers are in the regular forces now, and reserve/national guard units are probably in a significant decline. On top of that, they're part of the feminized non-combat-arms part of the military that can do anything a boy can do, except when they really have to.
As for contractors not being able to carry weapons. I believe that is ass-covering by the contracting companies, just in case their employees got their pics taken doing something. I know that the Marines issued weapons to their contractors at least early in the war.
Finally, $100k even mostly tax free, aint much for rolling the dice with death 24/7 for a year.
Posted by: Casca at September 28, 2006 07:16 PM (2gORp)
30
"Iraq was the most enlightened and western in all the ME."
Wrong again, Straw. That would be Turkey. Actually, it's Israel (but I know you were talking about Muslim dominated states.) To go back further in history, Lebanon was the jewel of the ME before the Muslims decided to kill the Christians that dominated the country. (Funny, how those Christian countries tend to be civilized.)
With that said, only a commie sympathizer who thinks Cuba is a beacon of freedom and who no doubt was in love with the former USSR could possibly even write that ridiculous sentence.
Posted by: blu at September 28, 2006 08:05 PM (TVuWZ)
31
<>
I never assumed that at all, don't put words in my mouth.
What I do assume, is that the Middle East is the "cauldron of Islamofacism." Iraq was geostrategic for a number of reasons that need not be listed here.
I will concede that invading Iraq may not have been our most enlightened decision, but we started it, and we should finish it to the best of our ability.
My question still stands. What is the correct approach to the war on terror? The sooner we answer that question, the better off we'll all be.
Why is it that liberals find it so easy to bash Bush and point out his administration's perceived failures and missteps; but find it impossibly difficult to put forth alternatives and ideas of their own?
I wonder.
Posted by: Rob at September 28, 2006 08:26 PM (Q2xwR)
32
Strawman, you are a 'light unto the nations,' right. Only stars evolve and now you're a black hole. We hear you and we don't miss so much some six million who perished and recall how Lev Davidovitch Bronstein (Trotsky)'s terror and bombast, of which yours is an echo without the gun, aided in the reaction which led to their being sucked also into the black hole. Twinkle, twinkle little star. Now we aid the Iraqis as we would have aided the victims and foolish converts of Marxism could we travel back in time.
Posted by: michael at September 28, 2006 09:51 PM (9Nd1U)
33
Michael,
WTF are you talking about?
We have NOT, I repeat, NOT, aided the Iraqi's. We have ruined their way of life under the guise of "freeing" them from their way of life under Saddam. He was a brutal dictator, as is the fellow having lunch with W today, but no matter Saddam was not our "friend the brutal dictator" anymore so he had to go. The problem, of course, is the strategy W chose. Clearly it didn't work too well. Saddam's gone but so is Iraq. Too bad for the Iraqi's huh?
Posted by: strawman at September 29, 2006 10:51 AM (tuy00)
34
Here's how my THWTH* Plan for the invasion would've gone:
-We wouldn't have disbanded the Iraqi army. Instead of our troops, the Iraqi forces would be used to restore and maintain order in the country, brutally if necessary. With quickly established martial law, the insurgency would be crushed and there would be no sectarian violence.
-No democratization. We would've installed some "moderate" Baathist general. Basically, a Musharraf-type of Sunni dictator that would keep the place together, abstain from WMD development and sponsorhip of terrorism, and be our proxy against the jihadists.
-Nation-building operations conducted by our troops would be nil.
There is an exit strategy. After capturing or killing the Deck of 52 and ensuring that all WMD's are destroyed, our troops wouldn't have to stick around to babysit and institute a liberal social engineering program for a bunch of pedophile moongod-worshipping primitives. Of course, by "exit strategy", I mean our forces leave Iraq....to head for Tehran.
With this plan, Iraqis wouldn't be dying because of our presence and sectarian strife. Our troops wouldn't be dying there while trying to build a morally idealistic Iraqi society. It would have freed up our troops to unapologetically remove the Iranian nuclear threat by giving the Persians a new Shah. After accomplishing their missions, most of our troops would've all come home before the 2008 elections and our troops' KIA casualties from both wars combined wouldn't have surpassed 4 digits.
By going this route, Strawman would've been happy, right?
* "To Hell With Them" Hawk
Posted by: reagan80 at September 29, 2006 12:13 PM (dFOlH)
35
Okay Reagan, assuming your plan had been followed, it would be interesting to speculate what Kennedy, Pelosi, Dean, Durbin, Murtha etc. would have said about it. Because you know they wouldn't have liked it either. In fact, If Bush had never invaded, you know the Democrats would be complaining that Bush was not doing anything about the growing terrorist threat in Saddam's training camps, etc.
Posted by: annika at September 29, 2006 12:52 PM (qQD4Q)
36
It would be nice if a few canards could be buried. The worst being that we disbanded the Iraqi Army. They disbanded themselves. It was not our policy to disband them. It was our aim to make them drop their weapons and run.
Posted by: Casca at September 29, 2006 01:39 PM (Z2ndo)
37
Man that video was hilarious. Did anyone see the "brave" americoward hummer hauling ass out of there? Leaving those bloodsucker KBR drivers to die? Fucking hilarious. Proving once again, if they can't do it with air power it doesn't get done. Though it is common sense that it is S.O.P. for them to get out of the kill zone of an ambush, they didn't try to counterattack or anything once they were out of the kill zone and they need to start being honest and admit they didn't give a damn what happened to those KBR bloodsuckers, as is obvious by them not being able to do anything when Rebels came up and shot three of those driver pukes to death that the "Army" escort was nowhere around. They didn't just "get out of the kill zone", they hauled ass and didn't stop until they were WAY far away. The aptly-named Preston Wheeler, one of the war profiteer bloodsuckers who was able to miraculously survive the ambush can attest to that. I knew amerikkka has quite a chickenshit military but this makes even me say "Wow".
Posted by: Chuck Wood at September 29, 2006 01:56 PM (iNVtF)
38
P.S.-- In case you head-up-the-ass types haven't noticed it yet i figured i had better break the news to you: Your war in Iraq is lost. Forget about victory or even a face-saving "peace with honor". It won't happen. The whole world sees amerikkka's "military" can't deal with a bunch of Rebels running around with old rifles and homemade bombs. 3 and a half years into this debacle and you can't even secure the road running from the Green Zone to the airport in Baghdad!! It is lost. Give it up. It was a wrongful war anyway, considering Iraq was doing nothing to provoke it. The occupier would need about twice the number of troops in country to have any chance whatsoever of pacifying it, and those troop numbers simply are not available. It is as good as over. All you are doing now is giving jihadists who have ample reason to hate fascist amerikkka a great training ground. Congratulations. The world sees the Iraq war is a failure and a lost cause, and now even most amerikkkans see it too. I say again, give it up. It is lost. Pretty humiliating for the so-called "world's only superpower", huh?
Posted by: Chuck Wood at September 29, 2006 02:13 PM (iNVtF)
39
The Iraqi military was predominantly Sunni before the invasion. If they knew that a Sunni Arab was going to be left in charge, they most likely would've come back to their units. Right now, the former members of the disbanded army are either pissed about being unemployed or enraged at the Shiite usurpation of the gov't.
"If Bush had never invaded, you know the Democrats would be complaining that Bush was not doing anything about the growing terrorist threat in Saddam's training camps, etc."
Oh, of course. The Dems say that we should be in Iran (some say Darfur) instead. However, if they want us to go nation-building there after the invasion, as opposed to just razing the place, then the draft would have to be reinstated in order to get a force that's sizable enough for the occupation. (It's at least twice the size of Iraq.)
Today's Democrats would've thrown Truman and Kennedy under the bus. I'm sure they would've despised Truman because he defended an autocratic anti-C.o.m.m.u.n.i.s.t. gov't(South Korea) and Kennedy because of his tacit approval of the assassination of a former autocratic ally, Ngo Dinh Diem.
Posted by: reagan80 at September 29, 2006 02:28 PM (dFOlH)
40
Chuck,
If I ever find you, I'm going to give you an enema with 100 yards of razor wire. Then, I'll pull out all of your fucking teeth so that your blood will lubricate my cock as you fellate it. Finally, I'll cum in your eye socket since you apparently need some white matter to substitute for your lack of the gray variety, you cock-biting eunuch.
Posted by: Spanky at September 29, 2006 02:47 PM (dFOlH)
41
I love Chucky. I hope he gets his own tv show in time for 2008!
Posted by: annika at September 29, 2006 02:50 PM (qQD4Q)
42
Strawman's name is very apt.
But there's also a damned good reason we don't "carpetbomb" villages because an attack occurs in them - the attacks aren't likely to have anything to do with the place they occur.
If the attacks were known to be planned by the entirety or vast majority of the locals, undertaken by them, and/or occurred with the willing consent and aid of the locals, there would be some justification for a general attack (as the locals would be combatants)... but as far as I know this is almost never, if ever, the case.
Carpetbombing the entire village would be immoral, actual, no-shit war crime, and immensely counterproductive.
I'll settle for simply killing the people who commit such attacks. That's moral, absolutely legal under the traditions and laws of war, and productive.
Posted by: Sigivald at September 29, 2006 03:20 PM (4JnZM)
43
Wow,
Isn't this thread the best in a long time? I know I'm enthralled!
Whose this Spanky animal? SOunds like a guy who needs to bite the head off a chicken but is conflicted because when he married the chicken he frgot to get her to sign a pre-nupt and fears she might stop supporting him.
But seriously, Raygun, your plan has a ring of sanity to it assuming you think that Iraq was an issue in the first place, whick of course it wasn't. How about Jack Straw today? I didn't hear much but he did verify, as if we needed to hear it again, that the Wolfo-Rovo-Rumnuts cabal always wanted Iraq.
Chucky Wood may be a bit simple and lack the ironic tone I sometime strive for but he is right. This is a debacle of the highest order and on every front. How bout Parson-Brinckerhof and that army barracks? Real nice. Only 75 million.
And I don't belive for a minute that Annie wanted to carpet bomb anyone. She is terribly frustrated that the simplest piece of logistics cannot be enacted in this chaos.
And what is all this rationalizing about what the dems would or wwouldn't have attacked? Do you think that this is really an argument for not changing or agreeing that a different apparoch might have been better? I'm no student of logic or debate but it sounds really dumb. As I said to Blu the other day, it doesn't pass the 7-11 parking lot test.
I think a great deal of interesting stuff has been put forth not much of it terribly new but the level of vitrol is rising and I think that is because the side that thought this was a necessary invassion are finding that the truth is winning out and their heel clicking loyality becoming riven.
Posted by: strawman at September 29, 2006 04:28 PM (tuy00)
44
Straw is still gurgling his gallons of beloved man-juice!
Straw, stop pounding your boyfriend's balloon knot and go get a job!
Posted by: Radical Redneck at October 01, 2006 08:16 PM (fQ8EQ)
Coolest Thing On The Internets Of The Day
This thing is really cool. The Falling Sand Game. It's reminds me of Sim City, if you remember that old computer game.
1
I remember my progression, from micro machines, to wayne gretzky hockey 2, to simcity, to civilization 2...wolfenstein--doom--quake is in there too...tecmo bowl-castlevania-ninja gaiden as well...and there was something about beating all the mario bros games too...man when super mario 3 came out and had that layered moving background, some sort of faux 3D effect, thought it was kewl...now i play xbox in HD, neater still
Posted by: Scof at September 27, 2006 07:50 PM (deQ2d)
2
Annie,
If you didn't know already, Chris Roach tagged you at his blog.
Posted by: reagan80 at September 27, 2006 09:11 PM (dFOlH)
3
We could use some of these things in Iraq to keep those neanderthals in line.
http://tinyurl.com/kj7hg
You'll see what I mean between 01:30 and 03:00.
Yes, I had Sim City on the SNES back in the day and half of those things Scof mentioned. It was okay, but I prefer the Civilization or Rise of Nations strategy games over Nagin simulators.
Posted by: reagan80 at September 28, 2006 06:04 AM (dFOlH)
4
I have to admire hand done spam. Should i leave it or ban it?
Posted by: annika at September 29, 2006 10:26 AM (zAOEU)
5
Bannika!
I'm noticing it more at other sites as well.
Posted by: reagan80 at September 29, 2006 10:58 AM (dFOlH)
6
I still have a version of SimCity on my computer. Haven't played it in months, though.
Posted by: Ontario Emperor at September 29, 2006 11:21 PM (c9o5+)
Celebrity Sex Videos Nobody Wants To See
Radical Redneck alerted me to the following bit of celebrity gossip:
He may have played nerdy eighth-grader Samuel (Screech) Powers in the sitcom "Saved by the Bell." But former TV geek Dustin Diamond can now take his place with Colin Farrell, Tommy Lee and Kid Rock as the star of his very own sex tape.
Everyone who remembers Diamond as a lovable putz is in for a shock once they see a 40-minute video in which he engages in a kinky three-way with two women, sources tell us.
We can't get too graphic here, but word is that the action includes some bodily functions and an act known as a "Dirty Sanchez."
I looked up "Dirty Sanchez" in the Rolodex of Love [nsfw]. Then I wished I hadn't.
Dirty Sanchez: A time honored event in which while laying the bone doggie style, you insert your finger into her asshole. You then pull it out and wipe it across her upper lip leaving a thin shit mustache. This makes her look like someone whose name is Dirty Sanchez.
Ugh.
Anyways, there's nothing that might induce me to want to watch Screech and two chicks fucking on video. In fact, John McCain might want to add that to his list of prohibited torture methods, just in case anybody at the CIA gets creative.
So I got to thinking. Who else might make the list of Celebrity Sex Videos Nobody Wants To See?
1
There is a whole scene in "The 40-Year Old Virgin" devoted to obscure titles associated to (what some may consider deviant)sexual practices. It's fucking hilarious. The "Dirty Sanchez" is, of course, included.
It's worth renting the movie just to see the "extra features" portion of the DVD.
Posted by: blu at September 27, 2006 07:10 PM (TVuWZ)
Posted by: Victor at September 29, 2006 05:47 AM (L3qPK)
8
Diamond has been trying for a new image every since he appeared on that Celebrity Boxing show and beat up Horshack. Other people whose careers could be resurrected by a sex tape include the guy who played Webster, and the guy who played Urkel. And maybe Lily Tomlin - or perhaps not.
Posted by: Ontario Emperor at September 29, 2006 11:25 PM (c9o5+)
9
How about a threesome of Mike Moore, Rosie Barr and Helen Thomas? With plenty of salad tossing!
Posted by: Radical Redneck at October 02, 2006 09:13 AM (TKGWe)
Wednesday is Poetry Day
annika has forgotten Poetry Day. Obviously, she's too distraught about the midget Angus Young being beaten by cancer-survivor Kylie Minogue in her latest poll. Sorry, annika, but a great back door will beat a midget in short pants any day.
Anyway. Poetry Day. Today's pick is inspired by my upcoming trip (like, in 30 minutes) to RFK to catch the Nats play the Phillies in some night action from the cheap seats, one section behind the right-field foul pole. Only one ball has come that way during a game: a monster home run by Daryle Ward (before he was traded to Atlanta) that hit the small wall right in front of my seat (sec 552 row 1 seat 3, on my 20-game plan), the day before I was supposed to go to a game. You can still see the smudge, if you know where to look.
Hard to think night baseball is still kinda recent. One hundred years ago...well, I wouldn't be seeing a game in late September. And it wouldn't be an NL game, and it would be between the Nationals and the Phillies.
And it for damn sure wouldn't have a 7:05PM start. Purists always say the original is best, and sometimes they're right (NO DL!), but...night baseball is cool. If you're ever in Washington, take a trip to the Phillips Collection and check out Night Baseball by Marjorie Phillips. It's kinda hidden away, but well worth the search.
(BTW, that's the Senators playing the Yankees, with DiMaggio at the plate.)
Funny sport, baseball. Start talking about one thing and you're suddenly drifting off as memories pile one on top of the other, at least until you hear that utterly distinct crack! and the crowd stands up and you're really focused on the ball's path and that sonovabitch is gone!
crack! Poetry Day. I found this poem one day and it struck me as how night baseball used to be, 100 years ago, only without the chlorine. Jonathan Holden published it in 1972.
How To Play Night Baseball
A pasture is best, freshly
mown so that by the time a grounder's
plowed through all that chewed, spit-out
grass to reach you, the ball
will be bruised with green kisses. Start
in the evening. Come
with a bad sunburn and smelling of chlorine,
water still crackling in your ears.
Play until the ball is khaki-
a movable piece of the twilight-
the girls' bare arms in the bleachers are pale,
and heat lightning jumps in the west. Play
until you can only see pop-ups,
and routine grounders get lost in
the sweet grass for extra bases.
Posted by: annika at September 27, 2006 02:33 PM (zAOEU)
2
Annika,
I really like this poem. Very evocative of a game, a time and feelings I know very well.
I played uniformed ball from 5-12 grade. I spent many summer days swimming in the chlorine pool, sun soaked, ears clogged, donning my wool blend uniform at 5pm hopping on my schwinn riding across town, cleats across my shoulders, to a freshly mowed and limed, mecury vapor lighted field. Strange how time puts a brilliant shine on memories of events that at the time were far from brilliant, and dulls others to extinction.
Thanks.
Posted by: strawman at September 27, 2006 02:40 PM (tuy00)
Posted by: strawman at September 27, 2006 02:43 PM (tuy00)
4
I can't believe they just tied it! Go Nats! = Go Dodgers!
Posted by: Scof at September 27, 2006 07:43 PM (deQ2d)
5
dammit. We left after 11 innings, heard the Nats load the bases w/ two down as the car pulled in front, the Nats pulled within one as I was getting rat medicine ready, then Schneider GDPd to end the game.
Posted by: Victor at September 27, 2006 09:10 PM (l+W8Z)
World's Greatest Australian (Besides Pixy)
You all voted for the World's Greatest Australian, and the results are finally in. I couldn't disagree more.
In what universe does a non-celebrity like Kylie Minogue beat Angus Young (who rules the known universe)?
That's b.s., but whatever.
Anyways, here's Kylie's banned lingerie commercial for whoever stuffed the ballot box. Enjoy.
1
And no one nominated Annika? For shame.
She's my vote.
Actually, as obviously literate as Annika is, I'm surprised Morris West wasn't among the nominees.
Posted by: Ed at September 26, 2006 07:00 PM (58r+2)
2
I'm a sucker for a great ass.
Any guy who doesn't think that was fucking hot is obviously a homosexual.
Posted by: blu at September 26, 2006 07:19 PM (TVuWZ)
3
Annika me?? But I've never even been to Australia.
Posted by: annika at September 26, 2006 07:28 PM (qQD4Q)
4
And I suck the great ass. Pass me the tossed salad!
Posted by: Spanky at September 26, 2006 07:40 PM (2A8p9)
Posted by: Victor at September 27, 2006 05:19 AM (L3qPK)
7
Casca? You didn't vote 42 times for Kylie? She is a thirtysomething that looks damn hot in a plaid skirt.
Rrrrrrwowwww.
Posted by: ElMondoHummus at September 27, 2006 05:54 AM (xHyDY)
8
No Breaker Morant? Not that I'm voting for him, but odd that he didn't make the list.
Posted by: will at September 27, 2006 07:06 AM (h7Ciu)
9
Will,
How can you discuss anything but that young lady's butt after viewing that amazing work of art???!!!! Focus man! Focus!
Posted by: blu at September 27, 2006 07:20 AM (TVuWZ)
10
Annika's use of the word "stuffed" + Kylie's ass = this link.
Posted by: ccwbass at September 27, 2006 10:15 AM (iiHtG)
11
I'm married and just had some this morning, so I can appreciate the video, but don't have all of my blood cells in my smaller head. Now if I had gone a few days without...
Posted by: will at September 27, 2006 10:27 AM (h7Ciu)
12
I must agree, Angus Young should have won. Hey Annika hows' about an AC/DC vid just for shits and giggles?
Posted by: Swamp Rabbit at September 27, 2006 10:44 AM (5kKM/)
Posted by: phil huggins at September 27, 2006 04:41 PM (ZUarE)
16
Annie,
You made one serious strategic error in constructing this poll: You underestimated the power of the penis. Personally, I voted for Angus. But that may be because I now have a fourth kid on the way. That's enough to make anybody shrivel up for a while.
Posted by: Matt at September 28, 2006 11:55 AM (10G2T)
17
I've just learned that there is actually an "ACDC Lane" in Melbourne, named after the band.
Posted by: mitchell porter at September 28, 2006 09:18 PM (k65NN)
Award Winning Fauxtography
Fans of photoshopped news photography might want to check out this one, which won a Pullitzer Prize, which I suppose is a lot like Yasser Arafat winning the Nobel Peace Prize. The photographer (and I assume, the digital manipulator) was none other than terrorist associate and propagandist Bilal Hussein, now in the custody of American forces.
A commenter to The Jawa Report broke this story, so check out Howie's post for more details. The dude "sitting on air" is the clincher.
1
this is a really threatening shot. I wonder what the photographer was doing there, right in the middle of war scene?
Posted by: Mr. Drug Rehab at September 25, 2006 06:41 PM (+DiUJ)
2
Pullitzer Prize for photography is given only if the picture is Photoshopped.
Posted by: Jake at September 25, 2006 06:57 PM (r/5D/)
3
Terrorists againÂ…it is sadly. Why did it won the prize? I cannot believe that there were not other pictures which could win the prize. I hate all that it is connected with terrorism and I hope that this war will end soon and peace, love, hope and gladness will replace it.
Posted by: Heart at September 26, 2006 11:00 AM (RMTHR)
Atlanta vs. New Orleans. The first game in the Superdome since Katrina. Falcons favored by 4. I'm going with the sentimental favorites, though. New Orleans plus the points.
1
Shit after this weekend where favorites couldn't cover. I may never bet a favorite again.
Posted by: Casca at September 25, 2006 07:27 PM (2gORp)
2
I usually hate any type of music performed in a stadium. But I have to admit, U2 and Green day, though a little corny, were pretty good.
I had the Saints Def. for my fantasy team so I won my third week in a row.
Posted by: kyle8 at September 26, 2006 09:42 AM (E4mbK)
3
How about that Monday night team in the booth? Do they define sucking ass or what?
Posted by: Casca at September 26, 2006 02:41 PM (2gORp)
4
They will definitely have to be an acquired taste.
Posted by: annika at September 26, 2006 05:55 PM (qQD4Q)
1
If it were true, would the Left cheer or cry? I'm betting on the tears.
Posted by: blu at September 23, 2006 06:28 PM (TVuWZ)
2
Thought I smelled something. JoPa may be dead too... same odor.
Posted by: Casca at September 23, 2006 07:06 PM (2gORp)
3
Does no one listen to what The President of the United SDtates says? He has consistantly said that we will have to kill these terrorists one at a time; hunt them down and KILL them.
Also, does anyone wonder why, in the midst of all this dialogue about "torture", no one ever mentions - d-r-u-g-s?
They have a lot better stuff than Sodium Pen these days...who needs water boarding and making them look at bare breasted American girls as torture?
Posted by: shelly at September 23, 2006 10:43 PM (ZGpMS)
4
So, it looks like the Dems have their own "October Surprise" with the NIE leak. The timing, of course, it not coincedental. The report has been available since April. This is a deliberate Democrat election year trick: Leak only certain bits of information that look bad for the administration, knowing full-well that the Admin cannot respond in full because the report is classified and knowing that any response will look reactive. (FYI: Powerline does a nice job dissecting the "reporting" of this information.) Smart politics to be sure, but bad for our country and the GWOT. Not surprising, though, as the Democratic Party hasn't cared about this country's security for some time. It's always about the accumulation of power no matter the cost. There is no "loyal" opposition in this country. The person responsible for this leak should be in prison, but of course will suffer no consequences. Is there anything the Dems wouldn't do to regain power? I doubt it.
Posted by: blu at September 24, 2006 05:05 PM (TVuWZ)
5
p.s. The traitorous New York Times once again shows that revealing classified secrets in a time of war means nothing to them. Whatever it takes to discredit Bush and enbolden Democrats trumps national security. How many deaths is this paper responsible for?
Posted by: blu at September 24, 2006 05:11 PM (TVuWZ)
6
Shit, when it comes to drugs, there's nothing like good old alcohol. Wear them down a bit physically. Keep 'em scared, wire their cells, then spike their OJ. Get 'em good and sauced, then throw a compadre in with them, who knows what questions to ask. They'll spill their guts. When I was done with them, they'd all have cerosis.
Posted by: Casca at September 24, 2006 07:43 PM (2gORp)
7
Damn, bet they'd have cirrhosis of the liver as well.
But, they want to die for Allah, right? Hell, we'd be doing them a favor.
Posted by: shelly at September 24, 2006 10:15 PM (GIL7z)
8
I'm gonna throw my unabridged dictionary at you.
Posted by: Casca at September 25, 2006 06:04 AM (Z2ndo)
Winning The GWOT
Yesterday my post was so pessimistic, I thought I'd lighten things up a bit today — sort of.
Two years ago, President Bush was criticized for saying that we can't win the Global War On Terror:
I don’t think you can win it. But I think you can create conditions so that the — those who use terror as a tool are — less acceptable in parts of the world.
In response to my post from yesterday, my friend Matt wrote:
This isn't the kind of war that either side can "win" in any conventional sense. Our enemies can't destroy us militarily, because we're far too strong. We can't destroy them militarily, because they're too disbursed and decentralized. So we'll be taking potshots at one another for a long time to come. What's the end game? I don't know. How will a permanent state of war affect American politics, our collective psyche and our liberty? I don't know. It's a frustrating and frightening thing.
Great minds may think alike, but I'm afraid I must respectfully disagree with both of these learned men. We can win this war.
Matt, of all people, should know as a boxing fan that a lot of times the winner of a bout is decided by who makes the first mistake. He's right in saying that al Qaeda can't destroy us because "we're far too strong." Therefore, no mistake on our part can end the conflict.*
But if al Qaeda, and the radical Islamist movement it has spawned makes a mistake, we can and will crush them in such a way as to end the war. What is the particular mistake that will cause our enemies to lose? I'm getting to that.
As the situation stands now, al Qaeda et al. have the initiative and the upper hand in the GWOT. As it stands now, we cannot deal them a death blow. That's because in the most basic sense, all warfare is about control of geographic areas.†The great strength of the terrorist is that there is no geographic area which we can push him off of. That's what Matt meant when he wrote that the enemy is "too disbursed and decentralized."
President Bush's big contribution to the theory of warfare is the "Bush Doctrine," which in part addresses the terrorist's strength: their lack of geographical origin. On September 11, 2001, he said that the United States, when hunting down the terrorists, "will make no distinction between the terrorists who committed these acts and those who harbor them." Nine days later, in his greatest speech, the President restated that doctrine in more detail:
This war will not be like the war against Iraq a decade ago, with a decisive liberation of territory and a swift conclusion. It will not look like the air war above Kosovo two years ago, where no ground troops were used and not a single American was lost in combat.
Our response involves far more than instant retaliation and isolated strikes. Americans should not expect one battle, but a lengthy campaign, unlike any other we have ever seen. It may include dramatic strikes, visible on TV, and covert operations, secret even in success. We will starve terrorists of funding, turn them one against another, drive them from place to place, until there is no refuge or no rest. And we will pursue nations that provide aid or safe haven to terrorism. Every nation, in every region, now has a decision to make. Either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists. From this day forward, any nation that continues to harbor or support terrorism will be regarded by the United States as a hostile regime.
The administration's war planners realized very quickly that you can't win a war against an ephemeral enemy unless you can tie them down to a piece of land and then destroy them on that land. That's why we got this oft criticized "you're either with us or against us" part of the Bush Doctrine. The idea was to nullify the terrorists' advantage of not being attached to any state, by attaching them to a state.
It was a brilliant and necessary idea, but unfortunately it has not been entirely successful in practice. Geopolitical considerations have blunted the doctine's effect, as I think the war planners probably anticipated. We've seen the doctrine work beautifully in Libya, but in Pakistan and Saudi Arabia for instance, there have been mixed results. We had to make a difficult compromise with those countries because an imperfect alliance with their governments is still of great value to our interests. As a result, we have to accept that, for the time being, there will be some laxity in their efforts to control the extremism within their own borders. We can't fight everyone all at once, and especially not if Pakistan and the Saudis assure us that they are on our side.
The Bush Doctrine alone cannot win this war. So what is the mistake that the Islamists dare not make? What is the mistake that will enable us to win? It is the very thing that the enemy hopes to gain: a pan-Islamic caliphate.
Think back to the 1930's. That was a time when the democratic world looked at the growing threat of fascism and was unable to do anything to stop it. I would argue that appeasement and half-hearted reaction was inevitable then, just as it seems inevitable now. The world simply wasn't in a place where strong and united action was possible. Democracies have many strengths, but swift action is not one of them. In the 1930's there was still a system of alliances that finally mandated a response to Hitler, but the response came almost too late.
The Allies responded to Hitler only after he started taking territory by force. Now fast forward a few years. We responded to the Japanese after they started advancing across the Pacific. We responded to the North Koreans when they invaded the South. Same thing in Vietnam. Same thing when Saddam invaded Kuwait. When territory is invaded by an expansionist enemy, we never seem to have any trouble responding appropriately.
What would happen if Osama bin Laden got what he wanted — the restoration of Islamic territories to a fundamentalist theocracy under Sharia law? My thesis is this: If the Islamic fundamentalist movement were to become attached to a state, and that state were to adopt expansionist ambitions, the Western World would and could oppose them successfully.
We know that one goal of Islamic fundamentalism is to recapture territory lost to the infidel, or lost to secularist governments such as Egypt and Turkey. That is their end game. Their fatal mistake would be to actually start achieving those goals. Once the terrorists start to add nations to their idealized pan-Islamic caliphate, they will become a concrete threat that the world can unite against. Instead of being an ephemeral enemy, unconnected with any state and therefore immune from retaliation, they would suddenly become constrained by the same realities of warfare that have prevailed for centuries — and at which we excel.
The bad news is that my thesis presupposes a long period of very bad setbacks for our side. But I don't see any other way around it. The West has proven that it does not yet have the will to unite against its enemy, and even if it did, fighting insurgents and terrorists is like fighting ghosts. You can bomb a nation into submission, but I think we all know by now, it's pretty hard to bomb suicide bombers into submission. Just ask the Israelis. They've always been able to beat any nation-state with one hand tied behind their back. But they just lost their very first war, against a bunch of terrorists who were disavowed by any government.
The really bad news is that, in my view, the timeline for this caliphate solution to come about is on the order of ten to twenty years. By that time, Iran will have nuclear weapons. I think we all know that it's inevitable. So when Iranian troops spearhead the invasion of Greece, or Spain, or wherever, and the West finally gets up the gumption to oppose them, we will be firing missiles at each other.
I know this post sounds like I've been reading too many Harry Turtledove books, but if you think about it, you'll see I'm right. Countries win wars by finding a way around the enemy's defenses. Islamic terrorists hide within "neutral" states and behind innocent civilians, that is their main defense. But they lose that defense once they attach themselves to a piece of land and call themselves a nation. Therefore the seeds of their own destruction lay inside their own express goals.
I told you this would be a more optimistic post.
_______________
* I can hear the nay-sayers now. "But we're already making mistakes that will cost us the war, by being too soft on the enemy, on homeland security, on our borders, etc." I don't disagree that we're being too soft. But what is the probable result of our softness? A major attack? And the result of a major attack will be that our softness is replaced by a hardness in proportion to how bad the attack is. Bottom line is that no terrorist attack, however horrendous, will cause the United States to become part of the pan-Islamic caliphate. That is a danger that exists solely in Europe, due to their lack of moral character, their lax immigration policies, their societal decision not to reproduce, and their sixty year reliance on the United States' security umbrella, which caused them to forget how to defend themselves. But I do not see that fate happening to us. As a people we are too stiff necked and independent. And we love our Constitution too much to replace it with the Koran. (Sure we got some nutty ideas in this country. But when the Swedes are considering a tax on all men to pay for domestic violence treatment — and the idea is taken seriously — all I can say is we have a long way to go in the U.S. before we reach the European level of self-destructive insanity.)
†I know von Clausewitz said, "War is merely the continuation of policy by other means," but I'm talking in the micro sense. There's a guy standing on a piece of land that I want to stand on. He's got a gun and I've got a gun. War is how I use my gun to get him to let me stand on that piece of land. He either dies, runs away, or steps aside.
1
>If the Islamic fundamentalist movement were to become attached to a state, and that state were to adopt expansionist ambitions, the Western World would and could oppose them successfully.
Excluding the Palestinian situation, is not the Islamic militant movement funded in an underground manner, so that no single state is attached? Are not advances being made in regions of the world, such as Sudan, that are not being opposed successfully?
>they would suddenly become constrained by the same realities of warfare that have prevailed for centuries — and at which we excel.
I had to mull this over for awhile. If countries such as Egypt and Turkey became militant Islamic before a caliphate was installed, then there would be little leverage to attack. If they fell after a caliphate was installed due to civil unrest or even by elections, again there would be little leverage to attack.
And terrorist attacks could continue without any state claiming them.
However, your scenario is also quite plausible.
Posted by: will at September 22, 2006 06:47 PM (h7Ciu)
2
Very thoughtful post. There are so many variables (e.g. economic) that it's difficult to think all these things through to an endgame. Thanks for putting your thinking out there.
Posted by: blu at September 23, 2006 08:10 PM (TVuWZ)
3
I agree, for the most part. It is a very thoughtfull post. However, they have already attached themselves to a state, Iran, we are just in a state of denial. But, putting Iran aside for the moment and the scenario plays out as you suggest, which, by the way is quite plausible, and we do crush that state, I'm afraid all it would succeed in doing is set the movement back to the situation we are in now.
I read a book last winter, and the name of the author escapes me at the moment, but the title was 10,000 Years for Revenge. Great read and if you would like, I'll come up with the author's name for you. The title said it all though. The mindset we are up against is so foreign to our way of thinking, and they are tenacious.
The Islamists want control. They are not interested in and in fact despise freedom. The only freedom they seek is the freedom to control one another. It's not about money, or raising the bar of their living conditions, creature comforts, education, technology, scientific breakthroughs, or advancing the human race in any way. They are content and prefer to live in 600 AD. They're just using our tools currently to take us back there.
They are not happy living side by side with their neighbors. They even murder one another in the name of Allah.
On 9/11 our world changed. All of a sudden we were, not only horrified by the attack, but enraged by it. How dare they!!!! Yet as time passes, we as a society seem to be forgetting that the attack was an attempt to change our culture. We are detached from that reality, Instead, we are "enraged by inconvenience". We are scrutinized more and more in our daily lives, our freedom to travel has been affected. Our conversations are suspect, our politics has turned into a political civil war in this country. At a minimum, the bright future America once offered has dimmed.
For the radical Islamists, it has not. They see within their grasp the destruction of the west. They celebrate in the streets every setback the US or any western nation suffers. They threaten our religious leaders promoting the free flow of ideas with death. They murder authors, filmakers and anyone who has a view of the world not in line with their ideaology.
Crushing a future "central state" will not alleviate the problem. We are at war, and it is going to be a long, long war.
We need to act, and we have to a point. But the threats that we face today will just get bigger with time as the Islamists aquire more and more of our tools to level the field. We can't afford to wait until they form some sort of tangible target. We have tangible targets in Iran today. But many in the US and the west are refuse to admit that these threats are real. We are dancing with the devil and the music is about to stop.
I don't want war. I want to mow my lawn as most of us do. I want to go sailing, enjoy Thanksgiving with my family, teach a kid to ride a bike. Unfortunately, as we learned on Tuesday, September 11, 2001, there are those that don't want me or you to do that.
We need a strong leader. A leader who can articulate the crisis we face. A leader that can recall the rage in us we all felt that day, and we need a government who will stand behind him. We have elections coming up and nothing will happen without the right leaders in office. We need to speak to the Muslim world with a united and strong voice that we will defend our ideals and our freedoms. And we need to act. Now. We have been bloodied enough.
Posted by: Billy at September 23, 2006 10:50 PM (nlgQw)
4
You may well be right about the way things will unfold, Annika. But the cost of this scenario would be very high: probably 50 million deaths brought about by the enemy attacks and by our retaliation. I hope we can avoid going down this path by taking appropriate actions now, but I increasingly doubt our willingness to do so.
Posted by: david foster at September 24, 2006 07:17 AM (/Z304)
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I didn't say there was no end game; I just said I couldn't see it. I agree: Very thoughtful post. (I cringe to note that you reprinted my misuse of "disbursement." D'oh!)
Without addressing all the objections, one significant possible flaw I see in your thinking is the conclusion that by crushing a pan-Islamic caliphate militarily, we'd "win." I'm not at all sure that's true. We might, if the war was so terrible that it caused Muslims to turn their backs on radical Islam the way Germans turned their backs on Nazism after six years of horrors. But Islam's a whole lot more resilient and enduring than the half-baked pseudo-philosophy of the Austrian corporal, and the radical strain seems to have a very strong appeal for a certain kind of asshole. A military defeat of a pan-Islamic caliphate could just as easily result in a return to what we have now.
Radical Islam is an idea. As long as it has significant numbers of adherents, we won't really have won. And since we can't kill all its adherents -- not even most of them -- I think the only way to really "win" this war is to kill the idea, or wait it out. That's a whole lot harder than killing people, and it's apt to take a long time. That's what worries me: I'm not sure how long we have.
Posted by: Matt at September 24, 2006 02:01 PM (wZJrO)
6
Derbyshire says all we have to do is prevent the Muzzies from getting nukes, brutally retaliate against their terror attacks, and wait them out until they become enlightened in a million years or something.
http://tinyurl.com/jydr9
Posted by: reagan80 at September 24, 2006 02:24 PM (dFOlH)
7
That's about the best I can come up with, too. But it's liable to take a very long time, and I don't share Derbyshire's confidence that apocalyptic weapons will remain out of reach of the nut cases for the indefinite future. Technology makes everything easier. Even if they don't build nukes, they probably can manage to breed some nasty bugs.
Posted by: Matt at September 24, 2006 02:44 PM (wZJrO)
8
Interesting points gentleman. So, does this mean, in your view, that we must attack Iran sooner rather than later? We can't allow this ideology to acquire nuclear weapons. Yet, attacking Iran would undoubtedly lead to even more zealots. It's a tough call. I think, though, that we have no choice but pre-emption regardless of the certainty of adding to the number of fundamentalists. These people will use the weapons if they have them. We can't allow that to happen. Avoid the mushroom cloud first and worry about winning hearts and minds second. The latter can't possibly happen in time to avoid the former given the timeframe.
Posted by: blu at September 24, 2006 06:47 PM (TVuWZ)
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The news tonight, at least on the BBC website is saying that the port in Somalia has now fallen into the hands of the islamists.Thousands are fleeing. Somalia, at this point has now effectively been taken over, by force, by muslim forces. Does that count as attaching themselves to a state?
Now, here's the bad news. The word Somalia evokes memories of Black Hawk Down, failed US policy and all kinds of mean and nasty memories among many Americans.
Now, the good news. Most Americans coudn't show you where Somalia is on a map. So, here's my plan. We bomb Somalia, I mean bomb the heck out of it. It's a coastal community and easily accessed by our ships and the forces we already have in the Gulf region. We explain to the American people that this is an Iranian backed attempt at expansionism that threatens the oil supply lanes. (Strategically it is very important, it's just that up until now the Somalian Navy has been comprised of some old freighters with beat up boston whalers on the deck with which they attack merchant ships with machine guns and RPG's that traverse the area.)
So,.....The Iranians made a BIG deal about War games about a month ago. Videos showed their supposed missle launches from subs and it was accompanied by threats to close off the oil traffic in the gulf, which they would be crazy to do because that would be shooting themselves in the foot that they so often place in their mouth.
Let's allow an Iranian warship or two to enter the newly "radical" muslim captured port of Somalia, then.....bam,zoom, to the moon Alice! We kill two birds with one stone.
1, We avenge the whole Black Hawk Down Incident
2, We attack Iran without attacking Iran, sending a clear signal to Ahmadinejad that we aren't playing games. Heck, he'll probably run and hide like that Hassan Nasrallah punk did when the Israeli's went after Hezbollah.
But here's the sweet part! We blame it on Clinton.!!! I know what you're saying, "this guy is nuts". Maybe, but stick with me here.
We say this plan has been on the table for years, leftover from the Clinton Administration after our short stay in Somalia. It was approved by the Joint Chiefs but the opportunity toexecute it hasn't presented itself until now. Why heck, we contingency plans in the bank for military action against just about everybody on earth.
You see, this could work, The operation is BOUND to succeed and Clinton being the egomaniac he is would be reluctant to say it wasn't his idea after all. Why this could be one of those atta boys that negate that oh shit about the whole Bin laden story. The left will be reluctant to criticise Bush because they'll think it was their boy's idea. Republicans keep the house and senate and we are able to prosecute the war on terror with impunity for the next two years.
But there's more. Inevitably things will go south. Despite overwhelming military victories it is really, really hard to "keep the peace". There probably will be much unrest within, say 1 1/2 to 2 years after the invasion. Just about the time the Presidential election is really heating up. So how does the GOP get out of this one??????........WE blame Clinton!!!! It was his idea,!! heck he admitted it!! Took credit for it,!! we were just trying to reach across the ailse!!!
I'm tellin Ya, this could be one heck of an opportunity.
Billy
Posted by: Billy at September 24, 2006 08:21 PM (nlgQw)
Another Warning From AQ
Perhaps many of you have seen the Abu Dawood interview transcript that's been making the rounds. If not, here it is.
It's pretty scary stuff. Dawood is supposedly some sort of al Qaeda bigwig, and he says American moslems should leave the country immediately. He also says that al Qaeda has already smuggled "deadly materials" across the Mexican border and that they can attack anytime.
I'm not convinced of this transcript's authenticity. It's supposed to have been done in person, but it reads like a written interview with short questions and long prepared answers.
Assuming arguendo that the transcript is legitimate, a couple of things come to mind. If the "deadly materials" were smuggled across the Mexican border, that suggests to me that a likely target is the West Coast, probably Los Angeles. That scares me a lot because my family lives there. I don't see the terrorists attacking anything except on the coasts. They can blend in easier in populated blue state areas than they can in say, Texas. Transporting the "material" from Tijuana to L.A. is a lot less risky than going from Nuevo Laredo to D.C. And if they want to top 9/11, they'll need to attack a major city that holds some symbolic value.
Secondly, if a big attack occurs, the Democrats won't look quite so dumb for having insisted that Iraq was a distraction and we should have been concentrating on finding Bin Laden. Just being honest here.
Thirdly, I have heard more than once from people I know, that if a major attack occurs, it will be open season on anyone with linen on their head. I think we're in for some serious backlash if there's another attack, as the interviewer acknowledes in the transcript.
I don't know about you, but I've noticed a vague sense of anger and dread rising in this country since about mid summer. I don't see it in my personal day-to-day life, but I do hear it on the radio, on tv and in blogs. I think left and right have been banging away at each other for five years and nobody's winning the debate. We're all sick of arguing and we're just waiting for some event to happen that will prove one side or the other right.
The string of foiled attacks this summer added to the feeling I'm talking about. So did the Lebanon crisis. And the Iran stalemate. And Chavez yesterday. The impending election is also a factor, though I don't think the results will change the national mood, no matter who wins. If there is a big attack on our soil before the year is out, I really think things will get ugly — much uglier than I can even imagine.
Sure, I know that there are lots of dedicated folks out there trying to detect and stop anything bad from happening. And they've been successful so far. But I also worry because it seems like it would be so easy for the terrorists to do something if they really tried. Anytime we catch somebody it seems like we got lucky. But just using my own imagination, I can think of dozens of ways they could carry out an attack without us ever catching them.
So I guess the message is pray, have an emergency kit ready, and don't fly during Ramadan (which starts two days from now).
But the temperature of the world is very high, and maybe we're not stuck in a continuum but barreling down a dark corridor. The problem with heated words now is that it's not the old world anymore. In the old world, incompetent governments dragged cannons through the mud to set up a ragged front. Now every nut and nation wants, has or is trying to develop nukes.
1
With our long borders and freedom of movement, I'm frankly surprised we have avoided being hit again. You are right, I think, that we have been very, very lucky. It's definitely not "if," it's "when." Fucking sucks.
Posted by: blu at September 21, 2006 10:42 PM (TVuWZ)
2
As we near the November elections, everything is seen through the prism of the elections and the potential results.
The Democrats have gone from gleeful exhilaration to existential dread of what is going to happen. They were so sure they were going to win the House and maybe even the Senate; it now looks like a toss up for the status quo, with the trend toward the Republicans.
If the Republicans win this one, lots of old, safe seat Dems will be retiring, thus creating even worse scenarios for them in the next Presidential elections. They are in real danger of becomming the permanent minority for a long, long time, and they know it.
Thus, those of us who stand with the Republican Party as the party best suited to lead us in this time of near permanent warfare, should be sure to vote, donate and work as hard as we can to save this Republic from the likes of Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid, Howard Dean and especially Herself, the Senator from New York.
Posted by: shelly at September 22, 2006 01:55 AM (ZGpMS)
3
Jeez, must be that time of the month. Hell there's an upside to everything. Pop a nuke in LA, and California is an instant red state. Pelosi, Boxer, and that fat cunt from San Francisco are all swinging from lamp posts. Of course I'm always running in Buck Turgidson mode. I hope they know that they're going to have to answer to the Coca-Cola Bottling Company for this.
Posted by: Casca at September 22, 2006 06:17 AM (Z2ndo)
4
Casca,
You think another attack (God forbid) helps Reps politically? I was trying to think that scenario through and could see it going either way. Curious about your thought process. It's kinda of a sick topic to discuss, but the reality is that it could happen, and I'm curious about the political implications.
Posted by: blu at September 22, 2006 09:32 AM (TVuWZ)
5
Annika, I'm with you on this one - I agree that whoever wins this coming November, things mood-wise won't change.
I discussed this post with my boyfriend and the transcript you linked to; he seems to think LA would be the ideal target too.
Oh and the serious backlash you mention -- I've heard it here a lot too. I mean, A LOT.
Posted by: Amy Bo Bamy at September 22, 2006 10:14 AM (Wz2Gp)
6
After re-reading that, I realize that "ideal target" sounds...bad. Okay, all of this sounds bad however you slice it. Anyways...
Posted by: Amy Bo Bamy at September 22, 2006 10:15 AM (Wz2Gp)
7
Children, children, lighten up. Blu, my comments are usually tongue-in-cheek, but what I've articulated would be the outcome if the strike is bad enough. Amy, quit hand-wringing. We're doing what we can do now. Ultimately, another blow by the bad guys doesn't equal power for the Demoncrats. What will happen is a focusing of our resolve as a nation. As that green fellow used to calmly say, "Don't make me angry. You won't like me when I'm angry."
Posted by: Casca at September 22, 2006 12:22 PM (Z2ndo)
8
I can't find that interview on any reputable news sites; the only ones carrying it seem to be affiliated with the National Enquirer and/or blackhelicopters.com. If the interview's real, I'm not inclined to believe a word of it. No matter how good you think your OPSEC is, you just don't tip your hand like that.
Not that that goes to any of your other points. We will get hit again. Eventually we'll get nuked. It's only a matter of time. This isn't the kind of war that can be "won" in any conventional sense -- by either side.
Posted by: Matt at September 22, 2006 01:03 PM (10G2T)
9
A successful terror attack, here, would also lend even more credence to the conservative "Big Government sucks at pretty much everything" meme.
National Review's resident war contrarian says don't worry about the Muzzies....much.
http://tinyurl.com/jydr9
Posted by: reagan80 at September 22, 2006 04:09 PM (dFOlH)
10
I'm not that worried, really. I think that we are strong enough to go on, no matter what happens. As a wise man once said, "Did we give up when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? NO!"
If something big happens, I think Casca is right, we'll really get angry. And angry probably means full mobilization - something we haven't seen since WWII. I'd say we are maybe 40-50% mobilized at the moment, and that allows a lot of people to be unserious.
But the truth is, we're winning this thing and the bad guys know that. I don't remember hearing anything about warnings prior to 9/11 (I don't even remember people saying there were warnings that we missed). The tapes are just an attempt to rattle our cage because that's all they can do. They've seen what we can do when we strike from the cage, they don't want us out of the cage.
Posted by: KG at September 22, 2006 04:15 PM (AC0TE)
11
It's a miracle we haven't been hit again. I don't know how a dedicated terrorist could fail to hit us, unless they were
a) running for their lives,
b) otherwise occupied in the mideast, or
c) such a scientific moron - due to a youth spent memorizing the Koran - that they would f___ up like an illiterate baboon, by, for instance, starting a fire whilst mixing chemicals in their apt. I'm talkin to you, Ramsi Yousef.
Posted by: gcotharn at September 22, 2006 04:34 PM (NoXBk)
12
KG,
I'm curious by what measure you gage that we are winning this "thing"?
Posted by: Strawman at September 22, 2006 04:37 PM (tuy00)
Posted by: reagan80 at September 22, 2006 06:06 PM (dFOlH)
14
RAygun,
I read the Afgan citation and If I wanted to re-read the bullshit the pentagon press sec. tosses out each day I could watch CSPAN. This was a very disturbing group of paragraphs since nothing in them is sourced. Are these people on the ground with the NATO forces and reporting first hand or are they simply a paid arm of the Pentagon? Who can tell? They speculate wildy in a most un jouurnalistic manner about what the Taliban will do, ususlly do and like to do, etc. I have no info to counter a word they say but after reading I have no reason to believe a word they say.
Posted by: strawman at September 24, 2006 10:21 AM (tuy00)
15
Strawman, here's why I think we're winning:
http://cageymind.blogsome.com/2006/09/24/really-are-we-winning/
Posted by: KG at September 24, 2006 12:13 PM (AC0TE)
16
"They speculate wildy in a most un jouurnalistic manner about what the Taliban will do, ususlly do and like to do, etc."
Unlike, say, the Washington Post or the NY Times or the Associated (with terrorists) Press? PUH-LEEESE.
The truth is that God Himself could send you proof, and you'd deny it and impeach His journalistic integreity. Your response is just one of the many reasons the average American finds the Left unelectable. You people are fanatical in your hatred of all things Bush and the military as well as knee-deep in conspiratorial crap.
Posted by: blu at September 25, 2006 01:22 PM (j8oa6)
17
Blu, KG,
Read your post and think it's crap, I'm up to my nostrals in conspiratorial crap and the wind is blowing so you'll have to forgive me.
All militarialy biased parties agree the effort is not going well and more than likely it has been a setback in the effort to do something contstructiv or protective, or positive, or anthing at all for the homeland. And there are 100,000 dead and 3000 a month more each month and prolly 3000 a month more your Islamic whipper snappers holding open their coats looking for a C-4 cumberbun. This plan of attacking Iraq is and has been so stupid its funny if it weren't so tragic. No democracy, no security, no Iraqi army or police force worth a damn, less electric than before the war, less oil pumping than everybody promised, no hospitals built, or schools, chaos reighning, billions down the drain each month, graft and corruption rampant...........
So guys, tell me something good other than the rat trap theory where Rummy tells us the bad guys are all coming to fight here and all we have to do is knock'em down like ten pins and given enough stinky bait and enough time we'll be winners cause they'll all be dead. Some plan.
Posted by: strawman at September 27, 2006 10:07 AM (tuy00)